7 ms·

Scientists traced a mysterious Covid case back to six toilets

108 points by cachecrab 2y ago

flybrand 2y ago
> could it mean that the massive covid infection in the gut didn’t show up on a nasal swab? Shouldn’t they have known that beforehand? Isn’t that a big red flag in this entire endeavor?
- HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
  Covid is supposedly a respiratory tract infection, so who'd be expecting it to only show up in the gut? It seems they still don't know whether that is in fact the explanation.
  - Ovah 2y ago
    It's been published since roughly May 2020 that COVID infects gut epithelium. It's not much of a stretch that it's transmissible that way as well.
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    > Covid is supposedly a respiratory tract infection, so who'd be expecting it to only show up in the gut? That's the thing with SARS-CoV-2. It's primarily transmitted by aerosols, but it has also been shown to be transmitted via smearing. It's primarily a respiratory tract infection, but it has also been shown to have intestinal, cardiovascular and neurological impact as well as persistence in these tissues [1]. And yet, despite 7 millions of people dead and dozens of millions of people suffering from long covid, there's almost no prevention mechanisms in force anywhere on this planet, even vaccine development and rollout have all but ground to a halt. It's like we learned nothing at all from the pandemic, our politicians just wanted to make it go away by pretending it went away. [1] https://elifesciences.org/articles/86015 https://elifesciences.org/articles/86015
    - to11mtm 2y ago
      > long covid Sadly the politicians are trying to wave that one away as well...
      - paulmd 2y ago
        [flagged]
    - throwaway22032 2y ago
      7 million people is 0.1% of the population. Approximately 1% of the population die per year. You think that's a big number, but it's not. People die.
      - peddling-brink 2y ago
        But we do a lot to prevent that number from being higher.
      - mschuster91 2y ago
        > You think that's a big number, but it's not. Yeah, but generally, your standard flu doesn't end the careers of about 6% of athletes who manage to catch it [1]. Covid is worse than the flu. > People die. Old people, yes. Young, healthy people in the midst of their careers? No. That's quite the misconception that has always stuck with covid, particularly as politicians focused on protecting primarily the elderly - the reality is, of all the US covid deaths, a quarter were people below pension age [2]. [1] https://www.dw.com/en/https-wwwdwcom-en-life-with-long-covid-video-63952402/a-65095119 https://www.dw.com/en/https-wwwdwcom-en-life-with-long-covid... [2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-...
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - fragmede 2y ago
        Death is a much easier statistic to track than dehabiltiation. The tens of millions of people who have long covid are statistically significant over the fewer dead.
mitchbob 2y ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20240324201541/https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/03/22/1090059/how-scientists-traced-a-mysterious-covid-case-back-to-six-toilets/ https://web.archive.org/web/20240324201541/https://www.techn...
- sergioisidoro 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - tetris11 2y ago
    Firefox+UBO, no issues at all. Also I recommend others downvote both of us so that we don't distract from the content.
egberts1 2y ago
[flagged]
- juitpykyk 2y ago
  Chlorine destroys viruses. That's why they put it in water.
  - egberts1 2y ago
    It is also an aid in evaporative suspension of water droplets in air.
- reaperman 2y ago
  This comment should probably be flagged, honestly. Most well-meaning and respectful comments can help add a little bit to the discussion on HN....but this one is a very, very rare exception due to being so terribly factually off-base. Methane, Chlorine, and Vinegar absolutely are not "primary methods of virus dispersal". Feel free to link your writings, however. They could probably use a good, thoughtful, and well-meaning critique.
banana_giraffe 2y ago
Freakanomics recently did an episode on this: https://freakonomics.com/podcast/water-water-everywhere-but-you-have-to-stop-and-think/ https://freakonomics.com/podcast/water-water-everywhere-but-...
- greazy 2y ago
  And the preprint https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.10.28.22281553v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.10.28.22281553v... Edit: this pre print is from more than a year ago! It was just published in Lancet https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(23)00372-5/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5...
jna_sh 2y ago
I was really hoping this would be the Ohio cryptic lineage, which was being tracked by the same team https://x.com/SolidEvidence/status/1665444603829407746?s=20 https://x.com/SolidEvidence/status/1665444603829407746?s=20
BrandonMarc 2y ago
Rather abrupt end to the article. Lots of ethical questions left unanswered .... which i guess is the point.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
jackfoxy 2y ago
[flagged]
- j16sdiz 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - pstrateman 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - op00to 2y ago
    We’ve been getting your DNA off pennys for decades.
rain_iwakura 2y ago
I'm honestly of the opinion that all of the ethical questions that arose during this search are fairly minuscule compared to the potential findings that could help us end this never-ending outbreak altogether. (At least by developing better targets for drugs like Paxlovid, if their hypothesis about GI tract replication turns out to be correct.) Of them all the potential to reveal that the patient X is hiding their HIV status is probably the biggest tragedy that can happen, since it will compromise their social and work standing due to stigma. If, however, this person does NOT know they have HIV or something similarly immunocompromising, it's in fact their moral prerogative to find this person and inform them of their disease, instead of beating around the bush trying to go easy on their feelings instead of potentially saving their life. Either way, at some point it becomes a question of common-good vs individual good and these options aren't so bad to even have this debate.
- nradov 2y ago
  There is nothing that can help us "end" the SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) outbreak. A highly infectious respiratory virus with multiple animal reservoirs can't be eradicated or even really contained. At this point it's just one more of several endemic human coronaviruses and will always be around in some variants, much like HCoV-OC43.
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    > There is nothing that can help us "end" the SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) outbreak. We could massively mitigate its effects to the point we could actually live with the virus without risking the often debilitating effects it can have. On a societal/systemic level: HEPA air filters in hospitals, care homes, public transport, schools, churches, generally any indoors place where large amounts of people gather would not just drastically cut down on transmission of pathogens of all kind, but also make the lives of people suffering from allergies so much easier. We put a lot of care into regulating our food, water, even our clothing to be free of pathogens and contaminants - but the air we breathe daily is barely regulated at all! On an individual level, we could wash our goddamn hands more often (I'd be really interested in, but probably also really disgusted by a study on soap and towel consumption in large office buildings before, during and after the pandemic), wear masks in public transport, and stay the fuck home when sick - although I realize that this is all but impossible in the US with there not being a federal law that allows people to stay home when sick with anything without risking of getting fired. Here in Germany, it's no big deal. Instead, our politicians seem to have completely given up any idea of dealing with covid.
willmadden 2y ago
[flagged]
- tonetheman 2y ago
  [dead]
Projectiboga 2y ago
94 and 95 masks and true Hepa filters are the best methods vs COVID. Hepa helps a lot against all respiratory viruses to slow spread in families, workplaces and communal spaces.
- reaperman 2y ago
  What are "94 masks"?
  - abracadaniel 2y ago
    KF94 from Korea.
senectus1 2y ago
always close the toilet lid before you flush... https://akm-img-a-in.tosshub.com/indiatoday/2022-12/ezgif-3-9468f0d3b9.gif https://akm-img-a-in.tosshub.com/indiatoday/2022-12/ezgif-3-...
kelseyfrog 2y ago
I must be missing something. There was only one line back to the restroom? Shouldn't there be another trail back to their residence? Or is there a person who only poops at work?
- kenny11 2y ago
  They could live outside the city where they would be connected to a local septic system instead of a central city sewer.
  - kelseyfrog 2y ago
    That's a good point! I knew there was an edge case I was missing
- animal531 2y ago
  Pooping only at work (or at home) is perfectly reasonable for people with regular bowel movements that go at roughly the same time every day.
  - kelseyfrog 2y ago
    How does that work with weekends? hold it?
aaron695 2y ago
[dead]
may_mccheese 2y ago
The person who did this study is actually YC '2025! Developing what is called "smart pipes" to trace these types of things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJklHwoYgBQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJklHwoYgBQ

108 points by cachecrab 2y ago

> could it mean that the massive covid infection in the gut didn’t show up on a nasal swab? Shouldn’t they have known that beforehand? Isn’t that a big red flag in this entire endeavor?

HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
Covid is supposedly a respiratory tract infection, so who'd be expecting it to only show up in the gut? It seems they still don't know whether that is in fact the explanation.
- Ovah 2y ago
  It's been published since roughly May 2020 that COVID infects gut epithelium. It's not much of a stretch that it's transmissible that way as well.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > Covid is supposedly a respiratory tract infection, so who'd be expecting it to only show up in the gut? That's the thing with SARS-CoV-2. It's primarily transmitted by aerosols, but it has also been shown to be transmitted via smearing. It's primarily a respiratory tract infection, but it has also been shown to have intestinal, cardiovascular and neurological impact as well as persistence in these tissues [1]. And yet, despite 7 millions of people dead and dozens of millions of people suffering from long covid, there's almost no prevention mechanisms in force anywhere on this planet, even vaccine development and rollout have all but ground to a halt. It's like we learned nothing at all from the pandemic, our politicians just wanted to make it go away by pretending it went away. [1] https://elifesciences.org/articles/86015 https://elifesciences.org/articles/86015
  - to11mtm 2y ago
    > long covid Sadly the politicians are trying to wave that one away as well...
    - paulmd 2y ago
      [flagged]
  - throwaway22032 2y ago
    7 million people is 0.1% of the population. Approximately 1% of the population die per year. You think that's a big number, but it's not. People die.
    - peddling-brink 2y ago
      But we do a lot to prevent that number from being higher.
    - mschuster91 2y ago
      > You think that's a big number, but it's not. Yeah, but generally, your standard flu doesn't end the careers of about 6% of athletes who manage to catch it [1]. Covid is worse than the flu. > People die. Old people, yes. Young, healthy people in the midst of their careers? No. That's quite the misconception that has always stuck with covid, particularly as politicians focused on protecting primarily the elderly - the reality is, of all the US covid deaths, a quarter were people below pension age [2]. [1] https://www.dw.com/en/https-wwwdwcom-en-life-with-long-covid-video-63952402/a-65095119 https://www.dw.com/en/https-wwwdwcom-en-life-with-long-covid... [2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-...
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - fragmede 2y ago
      Death is a much easier statistic to track than dehabiltiation. The tens of millions of people who have long covid are statistically significant over the fewer dead.

mitchbob 2y ago

https://web.archive.org/web/20240324201541/https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/03/22/1090059/how-scientists-traced-a-mysterious-covid-case-back-to-six-toilets/ https://web.archive.org/web/20240324201541/https://www.techn...

sergioisidoro 2y ago
[flagged]
- tetris11 2y ago
  Firefox+UBO, no issues at all. Also I recommend others downvote both of us so that we don't distract from the content.

egberts1 2y ago

[flagged]

juitpykyk 2y ago
Chlorine destroys viruses. That's why they put it in water.
- egberts1 2y ago
  It is also an aid in evaporative suspension of water droplets in air.
reaperman 2y ago
This comment should probably be flagged, honestly. Most well-meaning and respectful comments can help add a little bit to the discussion on HN....but this one is a very, very rare exception due to being so terribly factually off-base. Methane, Chlorine, and Vinegar absolutely are not "primary methods of virus dispersal". Feel free to link your writings, however. They could probably use a good, thoughtful, and well-meaning critique.

banana_giraffe 2y ago

Freakanomics recently did an episode on this: https://freakonomics.com/podcast/water-water-everywhere-but-you-have-to-stop-and-think/ https://freakonomics.com/podcast/water-water-everywhere-but-...

greazy 2y ago
And the preprint https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.10.28.22281553v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.10.28.22281553v... Edit: this pre print is from more than a year ago! It was just published in Lancet https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(23)00372-5/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5...

jna_sh 2y ago

I was really hoping this would be the Ohio cryptic lineage, which was being tracked by the same team https://x.com/SolidEvidence/status/1665444603829407746?s=20 https://x.com/SolidEvidence/status/1665444603829407746?s=20

BrandonMarc 2y ago

Rather abrupt end to the article. Lots of ethical questions left unanswered .... which i guess is the point.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

jackfoxy 2y ago

[flagged]

j16sdiz 2y ago
[flagged]
- pstrateman 2y ago
  [flagged]
- op00to 2y ago
  We’ve been getting your DNA off pennys for decades.

rain_iwakura 2y ago

I'm honestly of the opinion that all of the ethical questions that arose during this search are fairly minuscule compared to the potential findings that could help us end this never-ending outbreak altogether. (At least by developing better targets for drugs like Paxlovid, if their hypothesis about GI tract replication turns out to be correct.) Of them all the potential to reveal that the patient X is hiding their HIV status is probably the biggest tragedy that can happen, since it will compromise their social and work standing due to stigma. If, however, this person does NOT know they have HIV or something similarly immunocompromising, it's in fact their moral prerogative to find this person and inform them of their disease, instead of beating around the bush trying to go easy on their feelings instead of potentially saving their life. Either way, at some point it becomes a question of common-good vs individual good and these options aren't so bad to even have this debate.

nradov 2y ago
There is nothing that can help us "end" the SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) outbreak. A highly infectious respiratory virus with multiple animal reservoirs can't be eradicated or even really contained. At this point it's just one more of several endemic human coronaviruses and will always be around in some variants, much like HCoV-OC43.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > There is nothing that can help us "end" the SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) outbreak. We could massively mitigate its effects to the point we could actually live with the virus without risking the often debilitating effects it can have. On a societal/systemic level: HEPA air filters in hospitals, care homes, public transport, schools, churches, generally any indoors place where large amounts of people gather would not just drastically cut down on transmission of pathogens of all kind, but also make the lives of people suffering from allergies so much easier. We put a lot of care into regulating our food, water, even our clothing to be free of pathogens and contaminants - but the air we breathe daily is barely regulated at all! On an individual level, we could wash our goddamn hands more often (I'd be really interested in, but probably also really disgusted by a study on soap and towel consumption in large office buildings before, during and after the pandemic), wear masks in public transport, and stay the fuck home when sick - although I realize that this is all but impossible in the US with there not being a federal law that allows people to stay home when sick with anything without risking of getting fired. Here in Germany, it's no big deal. Instead, our politicians seem to have completely given up any idea of dealing with covid.

willmadden 2y ago

[flagged]

tonetheman 2y ago
[dead]

Projectiboga 2y ago

94 and 95 masks and true Hepa filters are the best methods vs COVID. Hepa helps a lot against all respiratory viruses to slow spread in families, workplaces and communal spaces.

reaperman 2y ago
What are "94 masks"?
- abracadaniel 2y ago
  KF94 from Korea.

senectus1 2y ago

always close the toilet lid before you flush... https://akm-img-a-in.tosshub.com/indiatoday/2022-12/ezgif-3-9468f0d3b9.gif https://akm-img-a-in.tosshub.com/indiatoday/2022-12/ezgif-3-...

kelseyfrog 2y ago

I must be missing something. There was only one line back to the restroom? Shouldn't there be another trail back to their residence? Or is there a person who only poops at work?

kenny11 2y ago
They could live outside the city where they would be connected to a local septic system instead of a central city sewer.
- kelseyfrog 2y ago
  That's a good point! I knew there was an edge case I was missing
animal531 2y ago
Pooping only at work (or at home) is perfectly reasonable for people with regular bowel movements that go at roughly the same time every day.
- kelseyfrog 2y ago
  How does that work with weekends? hold it?

aaron695 2y ago

[dead]

may_mccheese 2y ago

The person who did this study is actually YC '2025! Developing what is called "smart pipes" to trace these types of things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJklHwoYgBQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJklHwoYgBQ