5 ms·

There's been discussions where the "next" airport should go in the Seattle region, and the consensus is that nobody wants it. The State Legislature created a co

There's been discussions where the "next" airport should go in the Seattle region, and the consensus is that nobody wants it. The State Legislature created a commission to try and identify some potential sites, but the public backlash was so great that they ended up submitting it's final report with no actual recommendation. One of the interesting ideas (that was proposed even back when SEA was adding it's third runway) is to run high-speed rail to Moses Lake Airport in Central Washington and just expand there. I'm doubtful it happens, since that means building a major airport _and_ a new train.

throwaway48476 2y ago
Paine field is the new seattle area airport.
- brewdad 2y ago
  Paine Field would seem to make the most sense but there really isn't much room to expand it. It can probably help in the short/medium term while a new, from scratch airport is built elsewhere.
- subzidion 2y ago
  I don't think they believe Paine Field on its own is going to be able to accommodate the expected air travel growth. Yes, it's serving some commercial air travel now, but the consensus was there needs to be a new airport for all this growth.
- arccy 2y ago
  it barely has any flights anywhere this now
  - dmazzoni 2y ago
    Is there a reason for that? Can it handle more?
    - coryrc 2y ago
      NIMBY
- RaftPeople 2y ago
  Paine field can't support what is needed and can't be expanded. But it will continue to service a small percent of the overall need. The state has created a new commission to start the new airport site selection process over again, but this time it will just be a recommendation. The previous project that had been going on for many years was site selection and not just recommendation, but their selection(s) pissed off the people and so the whole thing got just got killed recently.
perlgeek 2y ago
> One of the interesting ideas [...] is to run high-speed rail to Moses Lake Airport in Central Washington and just expand there. While reading this article, I thought about something like that too. Build an airport quite a while away from the big city, and provide a high-speed, maybe even maglev train there. Make it free for customers. Also, make it very inconvenient for passengers and staff to approach the airport by other means, only allow cargo delivery there through the road network. This disincentives people from e.g. building hotels close to the airport, which would then attract further settlement, which would ultimately lead to noise complaints again.
- Arrath 2y ago
  > run high-speed rail to Moses Lake Airport Woah, that's a good ways out there
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  The aforementioned setup nearly always means the closer airport ends up getting upgraded later to meet convenience demands, leaving the newer-but-inconvenient airport out to dry. See: Haneda (HND) vs. Narita (NRT) in Tokyo, Itami (ITM) vs. Kansai (KIX) in Osaka, etc.
  - TulliusCicero 2y ago
    The issue for Seatac is that it's on a relatively small piece of land and can't really expand. They would definitely just go that route if they could.
  - ghaff 2y ago
    Didn't happen with Denver or Hong Kong.
    - masklinn 2y ago
      Or Paris.
  - dwater 2y ago
    In Washington DC, Washington National Airport (WAS) is just across a river from downtown and connected by subway, and Dulles International Airport (IAD) was way out past the exurbs when it was constructed and only just got a subway connection several decades later. IAD gets way more traffic and has as long as I can remember. I'd guess that's because it's not possible to add many more flights to WAS.
tallanvor 2y ago
It's been 35 years they've discussed that possibility. It's never going to happen. The costs of high speed rail across the mountain are simply too high.
- bombcar 2y ago
  It'd be easier and cheaper to landfill the sound - or do what is slowly happening and start using Paine Field.
bombcar 2y ago
Wasn’t that the idea behind Denver? It’s outside the city by a decent amount (or was when started). I assume proximity to the mountains was also a consideration.
- ghaff 2y ago
  The newer airport is really less convenient to the mountains than Stapleton was. (At least in terms of distance. Not sure about driving time.)
  - bombcar 2y ago
    Ah, I meant that putting the airport farther from the mountains means the planes can take off heading west without circling around. I don't know if it's that far, however.
    - ghaff 2y ago
      Stapleton was still east of Denver. I think the siting of DIA was probably more that there was a bunch of flat relatively empty land even further east. It's been a while since I flew into Denver but my recollection is the airport is pretty hell and gone from the city.
      - bombcar 2y ago
        It is, but in the last 20 years of visiting now and then, it is much more built up on the way "into town" - it used to be that you'd pass that hellhorse and see nothing for 40 minutes but a sign telling you not to stop for prison hitchhikers. Now there's tons of developments - which is always a problem for these airports. I remember when SEATAC was far outside the city and everyone hated it, now it's crammed in the middle of the Seattle/Tacoma metro area, which is all one big blob city.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - rconti 2y ago
Izikiel43 2y ago
The other problem was that the legislature restricted the commission of where they could look for a new place, it had to be less than X amount of people and other restrictions. In theory there was a good place for an airport if those restrictions were removed
yadaeno 2y ago
Paine Field is about 35 mins away from Seattle and serves airline traffic as of a few years ago.
- patch_cable 2y ago
  And it is so much better I routinely pay hundreds more to fly out of Paine Field.
- jethro_tell 2y ago
  Its hit or miss if you can get the flight you need or of there and it always costs more from what I can see.
- bombcar 2y ago
  Paine Field is also unnaturally large for a "little suburban airport" because it's the site of the largest building in the world, because it's a Boeing assembly plant.
  - BHSPitMonkey 2y ago
    Are you thinking of Boeing Field? Paine is a tiny little luxury airport with 4 gates.
    - mikestew 2y ago
      Maybe you've got them reversed? I've never been to Boeing Field, but I've been to Paine, and... "Paine Field is home to the Boeing Everett Factory, the world's largest building by volume..." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paine_Field https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paine_Field
      - bombcar 2y ago
        Exactly. Paine Field is tiny as a commuter airport, but it's got huge tracks of land (it's more than half the size of SEATAC and has a 9000 ft runway).
mikestew 2y ago
One of the interesting ideas (that was proposed even back when SEA was adding it's third runway) is to run high-speed rail to Moses Lake Airport in Central Washington and just expand there. That would have been an interesting idea before the railroad right-of-way was turned into a multi-use trail. There's another rail corridor that goes through Stampede Pass, but I don't know that it would be usable for "high-speed rail" (nor do I know that it even goes anywhere useful).
balderdash 2y ago
What’s comical is how hard it is to get to many urban US airports - why their isn’t the equivalent of the Heathrow express to serve New York city’s three airports is absurd
jamwil 2y ago
Sure would be nice to just pop out to the Gorge for an afternoon of music though!
resonantjacket5 2y ago
> There's been discussions where the "next" airport should go in the Seattle region, and the consensus is that nobody wants it. The State Legislature created a commission to try and identify some potential sites, but the public backlash was so great that they ended up submitting it's final report with no actual recommendation. The commission was hampered by rules that stated they couldn't look into increasing the existing airports capacity. "Survey responses also conveyed members’ views on what kind of options the Legislature permitted them to consider — the 2019 legislation prohibited considering sites in King County, or those near military bases. Some members noted that those constraints hindered their search efforts, with some doubting whether it’s possible to have a new airport operational by 2040." https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/state-panel-exits-with-a-final-message-washington-needs-a-new-airport/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/state... The "next" airport is basically just expanding SeaTac. There's plans to add a second terminal in SAMP https://www.portseattle.org/sites/default/files/2018-06/180530-SAMP-Presentation-Public-Meeting.pdf https://www.portseattle.org/sites/default/files/2018-06/1805... And then even WSDOT's project for the new 509 extension is to allow freight traffic to reach the seatac airport. Outside of that the other regional airport to be used is king county international airport -- even back in 2005 southwest looked into using it. Paine field, while it has the capacity is not where the demand is for passengers. Secondly, I don't think many people realize the bottleneck for SeaTac airport is not just passenger traffic but freight traffic. It's why the airport commission keeps choosing sites south of Seattle aka Pierce County or Thurston County because it's close to the port of tacoma. They aren't going to choose Paine field.
- throwway120385 2y ago
  Paine field is already loud as hell all the time so I'm glad it's a non-starter.
- danielodievich 2y ago
  I regularly fly to SFO from Paine field, it is 20 more minutes drive for me from Mercer Island but the experience of the airport is worth it. The lobby that is like a nice W, no security lines whatsoever, and seeing all the green pickle birds being assembled is really nice. I'd fly other places if they were offered. The place can handle a lot more traffic but yeah, the freight isn't going to go there...
nojvek 2y ago
Make Paine field airport bigger and accept international flights. I love that airport. It should be bigger and is north enough that it has its own population. Also US needs to build more high speed rail. We are over-reliant on airports.
shados 2y ago
Consider how the FAA handled the Nextgen project and continually gaslight anyone negatively impacted over the last 10 years, I would be against any airport built within 10 miles of where I live too. Not surprising people would be against it. It doesn't have to be so bad, but it is.

throwaway48476 2y ago

Paine field is the new seattle area airport.

brewdad 2y ago
Paine Field would seem to make the most sense but there really isn't much room to expand it. It can probably help in the short/medium term while a new, from scratch airport is built elsewhere.
subzidion 2y ago
I don't think they believe Paine Field on its own is going to be able to accommodate the expected air travel growth. Yes, it's serving some commercial air travel now, but the consensus was there needs to be a new airport for all this growth.
arccy 2y ago
it barely has any flights anywhere this now
- dmazzoni 2y ago
  Is there a reason for that? Can it handle more?
  - coryrc 2y ago
    NIMBY
RaftPeople 2y ago
Paine field can't support what is needed and can't be expanded. But it will continue to service a small percent of the overall need. The state has created a new commission to start the new airport site selection process over again, but this time it will just be a recommendation. The previous project that had been going on for many years was site selection and not just recommendation, but their selection(s) pissed off the people and so the whole thing got just got killed recently.

perlgeek 2y ago

> One of the interesting ideas [...] is to run high-speed rail to Moses Lake Airport in Central Washington and just expand there. While reading this article, I thought about something like that too. Build an airport quite a while away from the big city, and provide a high-speed, maybe even maglev train there. Make it free for customers. Also, make it very inconvenient for passengers and staff to approach the airport by other means, only allow cargo delivery there through the road network. This disincentives people from e.g. building hotels close to the airport, which would then attract further settlement, which would ultimately lead to noise complaints again.

Arrath 2y ago
> run high-speed rail to Moses Lake Airport Woah, that's a good ways out there
Dalewyn 2y ago
The aforementioned setup nearly always means the closer airport ends up getting upgraded later to meet convenience demands, leaving the newer-but-inconvenient airport out to dry. See: Haneda (HND) vs. Narita (NRT) in Tokyo, Itami (ITM) vs. Kansai (KIX) in Osaka, etc.
- TulliusCicero 2y ago
  The issue for Seatac is that it's on a relatively small piece of land and can't really expand. They would definitely just go that route if they could.
- ghaff 2y ago
  Didn't happen with Denver or Hong Kong.
  - masklinn 2y ago
    Or Paris.
- dwater 2y ago
  In Washington DC, Washington National Airport (WAS) is just across a river from downtown and connected by subway, and Dulles International Airport (IAD) was way out past the exurbs when it was constructed and only just got a subway connection several decades later. IAD gets way more traffic and has as long as I can remember. I'd guess that's because it's not possible to add many more flights to WAS.

tallanvor 2y ago

It's been 35 years they've discussed that possibility. It's never going to happen. The costs of high speed rail across the mountain are simply too high.

bombcar 2y ago
It'd be easier and cheaper to landfill the sound - or do what is slowly happening and start using Paine Field.

bombcar 2y ago

Wasn’t that the idea behind Denver? It’s outside the city by a decent amount (or was when started). I assume proximity to the mountains was also a consideration.

ghaff 2y ago
The newer airport is really less convenient to the mountains than Stapleton was. (At least in terms of distance. Not sure about driving time.)
- bombcar 2y ago
  Ah, I meant that putting the airport farther from the mountains means the planes can take off heading west without circling around. I don't know if it's that far, however.
  - ghaff 2y ago
    Stapleton was still east of Denver. I think the siting of DIA was probably more that there was a bunch of flat relatively empty land even further east. It's been a while since I flew into Denver but my recollection is the airport is pretty hell and gone from the city.
    - bombcar 2y ago
      It is, but in the last 20 years of visiting now and then, it is much more built up on the way "into town" - it used to be that you'd pass that hellhorse and see nothing for 40 minutes but a sign telling you not to stop for prison hitchhikers. Now there's tons of developments - which is always a problem for these airports. I remember when SEATAC was far outside the city and everyone hated it, now it's crammed in the middle of the Seattle/Tacoma metro area, which is all one big blob city.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - rconti 2y ago

Izikiel43 2y ago

The other problem was that the legislature restricted the commission of where they could look for a new place, it had to be less than X amount of people and other restrictions. In theory there was a good place for an airport if those restrictions were removed

yadaeno 2y ago

Paine Field is about 35 mins away from Seattle and serves airline traffic as of a few years ago.

patch_cable 2y ago
And it is so much better I routinely pay hundreds more to fly out of Paine Field.
jethro_tell 2y ago
Its hit or miss if you can get the flight you need or of there and it always costs more from what I can see.
bombcar 2y ago
Paine Field is also unnaturally large for a "little suburban airport" because it's the site of the largest building in the world, because it's a Boeing assembly plant.
- BHSPitMonkey 2y ago
  Are you thinking of Boeing Field? Paine is a tiny little luxury airport with 4 gates.
  - mikestew 2y ago
    Maybe you've got them reversed? I've never been to Boeing Field, but I've been to Paine, and... "Paine Field is home to the Boeing Everett Factory, the world's largest building by volume..." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paine_Field https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paine_Field
    - bombcar 2y ago
      Exactly. Paine Field is tiny as a commuter airport, but it's got huge tracks of land (it's more than half the size of SEATAC and has a 9000 ft runway).

mikestew 2y ago

One of the interesting ideas (that was proposed even back when SEA was adding it's third runway) is to run high-speed rail to Moses Lake Airport in Central Washington and just expand there. That would have been an interesting idea before the railroad right-of-way was turned into a multi-use trail. There's another rail corridor that goes through Stampede Pass, but I don't know that it would be usable for "high-speed rail" (nor do I know that it even goes anywhere useful).

balderdash 2y ago

What’s comical is how hard it is to get to many urban US airports - why their isn’t the equivalent of the Heathrow express to serve New York city’s three airports is absurd

jamwil 2y ago

Sure would be nice to just pop out to the Gorge for an afternoon of music though!

resonantjacket5 2y ago

> There's been discussions where the "next" airport should go in the Seattle region, and the consensus is that nobody wants it. The State Legislature created a commission to try and identify some potential sites, but the public backlash was so great that they ended up submitting it's final report with no actual recommendation. The commission was hampered by rules that stated they couldn't look into increasing the existing airports capacity. "Survey responses also conveyed members’ views on what kind of options the Legislature permitted them to consider — the 2019 legislation prohibited considering sites in King County, or those near military bases. Some members noted that those constraints hindered their search efforts, with some doubting whether it’s possible to have a new airport operational by 2040." https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/state-panel-exits-with-a-final-message-washington-needs-a-new-airport/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/state... The "next" airport is basically just expanding SeaTac. There's plans to add a second terminal in SAMP https://www.portseattle.org/sites/default/files/2018-06/180530-SAMP-Presentation-Public-Meeting.pdf https://www.portseattle.org/sites/default/files/2018-06/1805... And then even WSDOT's project for the new 509 extension is to allow freight traffic to reach the seatac airport. Outside of that the other regional airport to be used is king county international airport -- even back in 2005 southwest looked into using it. Paine field, while it has the capacity is not where the demand is for passengers. Secondly, I don't think many people realize the bottleneck for SeaTac airport is not just passenger traffic but freight traffic. It's why the airport commission keeps choosing sites south of Seattle aka Pierce County or Thurston County because it's close to the port of tacoma. They aren't going to choose Paine field.

throwway120385 2y ago
Paine field is already loud as hell all the time so I'm glad it's a non-starter.
danielodievich 2y ago
I regularly fly to SFO from Paine field, it is 20 more minutes drive for me from Mercer Island but the experience of the airport is worth it. The lobby that is like a nice W, no security lines whatsoever, and seeing all the green pickle birds being assembled is really nice. I'd fly other places if they were offered. The place can handle a lot more traffic but yeah, the freight isn't going to go there...

nojvek 2y ago

Make Paine field airport bigger and accept international flights. I love that airport. It should be bigger and is north enough that it has its own population. Also US needs to build more high speed rail. We are over-reliant on airports.

shados 2y ago

Consider how the FAA handled the Nextgen project and continually gaslight anyone negatively impacted over the last 10 years, I would be against any airport built within 10 miles of where I live too. Not surprising people would be against it. It doesn't have to be so bad, but it is.