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Hey everyone, I'm working on this at Google and would be happy to answer your questions :) The tldr; is that we see a lot of similar requirements from develope

Hey everyone, I'm working on this at Google and would be happy to answer your questions :) The tldr; is that we see a lot of similar requirements from developers across Angular and Wiz, so we're looking for opportunities to reuse work. Good example is the Angular Signals library that's now used in all the YouTube Mobile Web. In a similar way, Angular is bringing more fine-grained code loading that Wiz offers. Over time, we'll continue focusing on what's best for developers and incorporating the best from Wiz in Angular, and vice versa. At the end we can end up with one framework, or continue to coexist. In the next couple of weeks we'll follow up with a blog post that explains our plan in more details.

skybrian 2y ago
I’m more familiar with Preact Signals. How does Angular Signals compare?
- mgechev 2y ago
  Fundamentally they are similar to Preact Signals, Solid Signals, Vue signals, etc. We took some different trade-offs and listed the details here https://github.com/angular/angular/discussions/49683 https://github.com/angular/angular/discussions/49683
RunSet 2y ago
Question (you might need to pass this one up the chain of command): Was basic HTML gmail deprecated because users so overwhelmingly preferred slow, bloated UIs that there was no demand for an alternative?
- ktosobcy 2y ago
  tbh - killing of basic html Gmail was the last straw that pushed me to other mail provider... I usually use imap but once in a blue moon I need to access mailbox via browser and regular Gmail client is just abysmal...
- mgechev 2y ago
  We’re building infrastructure for these products rather than the products themselves. I’ll be happy to answer questions about Angular and our collaboration with Wiz :)
  - troupo 2y ago
    If those products end up bloated and slow, perhaps, some blame can be placed on the tools, too?
    - NoahKAndrews 2y ago
      Maybe that's justified, but it's just as likely that it's not.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
wentin 2y ago
> The tldr; is that we see a lot of similar requirements from developers across Angular and Wiz, so we're looking for opportunities to reuse work. Good example is the Angular Signals library that's now used in all the YouTube Mobile Web. In a similar way, Angular is bringing more fine-grained code loading that Wiz offers. It sounds no different from Svelte borrowing concepts from SolidJS, or Vue borrowing ideas from Svelte, from you said — if it is just adding some features that Wiz has, it doesn't sound like merging? Why put a shocking title that Angular is merging with Wiz, when Wiz has no name recognition in the outer dev community — like we don't know what that means?
- mgechev 2y ago
  Merging is the ultimate goal! Both teams are already working closely together on shared designs and specific implementations.
johny_morte 2y ago
Hey, im working with angular for almost 5 years now.. What changes should we -developers - expect in the developer experience. In other words how we work with angular. Are you aiming for the "drop-in" replacement same as with ivy back then? Or new standards are comming with this? Thx!
- mgechev 2y ago
  At this point, we are not anticipating to have to develop a new rendering engine at this point, so it should be a more incremental effort than Ivy. As an Angular developer you could expect new features and developer experience improvements. Also over time you’d see more of Angular used in popular consumer Google products.
Drac707 2y ago
is wiz gonna get open source now that is getting merged?
- mgechev 2y ago
  Yes, via Angular.
troupo 2y ago
What are specific "innovative approaches to perfromance" is wiz bringing? Even though it's claimed that it powers many of Google's websites, most of those websites are very far from being paragons of performance.
- mgechev 2y ago
  It introduced very fine-grained code loading on interaction and something the community refers to as resumability.
  - troupo 2y ago
    Could be interesting/useful, but none of these seem to have any impact on the sites like Youtube which loads tens of megabytes of resources, and every interaction takes a second or so to happen. Other sites like Photos are fast and performant, but I wonder if it's due to whatever perceived advantages of Wiz or due to the team actually caring: https://medium.com/google-design/google-photos-45b714dfbed1 https://medium.com/google-design/google-photos-45b714dfbed1 Edit: replaced incorrect link with a correct one
    - mgechev 2y ago
      Performance always needs to be a priority for a team to hit satisfying metrics. Wiz is designed to make it harder to get bad metrics if performance is not your top goal.

skybrian 2y ago

I’m more familiar with Preact Signals. How does Angular Signals compare?

mgechev 2y ago
Fundamentally they are similar to Preact Signals, Solid Signals, Vue signals, etc. We took some different trade-offs and listed the details here https://github.com/angular/angular/discussions/49683 https://github.com/angular/angular/discussions/49683

RunSet 2y ago

Question (you might need to pass this one up the chain of command): Was basic HTML gmail deprecated because users so overwhelmingly preferred slow, bloated UIs that there was no demand for an alternative?

ktosobcy 2y ago
tbh - killing of basic html Gmail was the last straw that pushed me to other mail provider... I usually use imap but once in a blue moon I need to access mailbox via browser and regular Gmail client is just abysmal...
mgechev 2y ago
We’re building infrastructure for these products rather than the products themselves. I’ll be happy to answer questions about Angular and our collaboration with Wiz :)
- troupo 2y ago
  If those products end up bloated and slow, perhaps, some blame can be placed on the tools, too?
  - NoahKAndrews 2y ago
    Maybe that's justified, but it's just as likely that it's not.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

wentin 2y ago

> The tldr; is that we see a lot of similar requirements from developers across Angular and Wiz, so we're looking for opportunities to reuse work. Good example is the Angular Signals library that's now used in all the YouTube Mobile Web. In a similar way, Angular is bringing more fine-grained code loading that Wiz offers. It sounds no different from Svelte borrowing concepts from SolidJS, or Vue borrowing ideas from Svelte, from you said — if it is just adding some features that Wiz has, it doesn't sound like merging? Why put a shocking title that Angular is merging with Wiz, when Wiz has no name recognition in the outer dev community — like we don't know what that means?

mgechev 2y ago
Merging is the ultimate goal! Both teams are already working closely together on shared designs and specific implementations.

johny_morte 2y ago

Hey, im working with angular for almost 5 years now.. What changes should we -developers - expect in the developer experience. In other words how we work with angular. Are you aiming for the "drop-in" replacement same as with ivy back then? Or new standards are comming with this? Thx!

mgechev 2y ago
At this point, we are not anticipating to have to develop a new rendering engine at this point, so it should be a more incremental effort than Ivy. As an Angular developer you could expect new features and developer experience improvements. Also over time you’d see more of Angular used in popular consumer Google products.

Drac707 2y ago

is wiz gonna get open source now that is getting merged?

mgechev 2y ago
Yes, via Angular.

troupo 2y ago

What are specific "innovative approaches to perfromance" is wiz bringing? Even though it's claimed that it powers many of Google's websites, most of those websites are very far from being paragons of performance.

mgechev 2y ago
It introduced very fine-grained code loading on interaction and something the community refers to as resumability.
- troupo 2y ago
  Could be interesting/useful, but none of these seem to have any impact on the sites like Youtube which loads tens of megabytes of resources, and every interaction takes a second or so to happen. Other sites like Photos are fast and performant, but I wonder if it's due to whatever perceived advantages of Wiz or due to the team actually caring: https://medium.com/google-design/google-photos-45b714dfbed1 https://medium.com/google-design/google-photos-45b714dfbed1 Edit: replaced incorrect link with a correct one
  - mgechev 2y ago
    Performance always needs to be a priority for a team to hit satisfying metrics. Wiz is designed to make it harder to get bad metrics if performance is not your top goal.