4 ms·

This sounds more about cuttings costs than anything else.

by null0ranje 3y ago

cpncrunch 3y ago
It sounds like efficiency.
- nsriv 3y ago
  Anybody that's taken a proctored online exam in high schools knows that this is absolutely not about efficiency. With universities rolling back test-optional pandemic policies, the College Board is likely to raise the price of exams and drive down the cost of administering them by gutting support. I'd predict more frequent exam dates once people have absorbed the price increase. Driving that velocity requires online administration.
screamingninja 3y ago
Agreed; this will further devalue these standardized tests when the results cannot be fully trusted and stop correlating with academic success.
- throw1234651234 3y ago
  I don't know why the above got downvoted - it's absolutely true. There is a reason I have to go into a testing center or sit there with my camera on with a proctor watching when taking cloud exams. I don't see how hard it can be to keep organizing SATs once a year - plus it really does generate a shared identity, which is something we are all sorely lacking. It was a big event to go to a different school to take the SAT.
  - r00fus 3y ago
    You will still go in, but it will be on a computer there.
- tehjoker 3y ago
  all true, but at least there will be one fewer setting students are forcibly exposed to COVID-19 in
  - pc86 3y ago
    It's 2024, the pandemic has been over for a number of years now.
    - ribosometronome 3y ago
      Because the disease became endemic, yes.
    - UncleSlacky 3y ago
      The "emergency phase" was declared over, however we're still in a pandemic. Most people want to pretend it's over, but nobody has told the virus.
      - pc86 3y ago
        COVID is endemic. Endemic and pandemic are mutually exclusive things.
        Dylan16807 3y ago
        Physically, one is a subset of the other. It's only "mutually exclusive" from a specific (misleading) angle.
        pc86 3y ago
        What angle? I'm talking about the definitions of the words. Pandemic: occurring over a wide geographic area (such as multiple countries or continents) and typically affecting a significant proportion of the population; characterized by very widespread growth or extent Endemic: characteristic of or prevalent in a particular field, area, or environment; a disease or outbreak of disease that is typically present in a particular region or population : an endemic disease COVID doesn't even really qualify as endemic based on the dictionary definition, but it's certainly not a pandemic.
- dandesim 3y ago
  This are big statements to be making with no rationale. These will still be proctored exams in person, so there is no reason to believe that cheating will increase. Additionally, there is low indicators from the start that standardized tests correlate with academic success, hence the number of higher ed institutions no longer requiring them. People who want to cheat will always find a way to cheat. All you need to do now is go to the bathroom and lookup answers on your phone.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    Standardized tests actually correlate better with academic success than a number of other measures. Some Ivies have recently been reinstituting standardized testing requirements.
    - dandesim 3y ago
      That’s just straight false, or at least I have never seen any evidence showing a strong correlation. What has been shown is the negative advantage minorities, impoverished, ESL, disabled people have when taking the test and the advantages that wealthy people who can pay for tutors have.
      - ghaff 3y ago
        ANd yet there's widespread reinstitution of standardized test requirements, see e.g. https://admissions.dartmouth.edu/apply/update-testing-policy https://admissions.dartmouth.edu/apply/update-testing-policy
      - knightoffaith 3y ago
        >What has been shown is the negative advantage minorities, impoverished, ESL, disabled people have when taking the test and the advantages that wealthy people who can pay for tutors have. How does this contradict the GP? This doesn't necessarily seem inconsistent with standardized tests correlating better with academic success on its face. Because I would expect that such people tend to have not just worse standardized test scores but also worse academic success (because of the advantages that wealthy people have that these people lack).
- r00fus 3y ago
  "Students will still take the exam at a test center or at a high school." You're not going to be able to take this with an iPad on your couch (or with a friend/parent nearby). Likely just as draconian as today, except no pencils required.
- gnicholas 3y ago
  How will this devalue the test? The only way in which the test is easier is that it's shorter, so students who lose steam toward the end will perform somewhat better. But this shorter test is dynamic, so it will still be able to assess students fairly, at all levels. In truth, it could even open the door to allowing for a higher ceiling, by offering even harder questions to students who score super well on earlier portions. That could make the test (and a coveted 1600+ score) even more trusted as a marker of academic ability/readiness.
  - goryramsy 3y ago
    Would not 'losing steam' on a long test be indicative of motivation and also be part of the test? Remember, the test is a lot more than the questions; the test is also about pacing and focus.
    - gnicholas 3y ago
      There is something to be said for endurance, and I admit that the new test will not test endurance as much. But I think most people don't think of the primary role of the SAT as an endurance test. When I was in HS, we had IB tests that were much longer, and were seen as grueling tests of endurance. And after law school, I took the CA bar exam, which was at the time the only 3-day bar exam. It was (in)famous for endurance. But do people think the SAT is measuring endurance? I don't, but perhaps others do. One thing that won't change is any effect on pacing. The SAT previously had sections, and it will continue to have sections. You still have to pace yourself through each section. But there was never a way to pace yourself across sections, through the entire test. You had to wait until one section was done before starting the next.
gnicholas 3y ago
How does this cut costs? I would think they'll be spending a ton on online security and such. Imagine the fallout if this is hacked or goes down on test day. They will save some money on proctoring, since the exam is much shorter in duration.
- goryramsy 3y ago
  It would not surprise me if the test was delayed last minute due to a security issue. I've seen firsthand the level of security in the testing application, and it is worryingly lacking. Did you know that they literally link 'desmos.com/calculator' as the calculator in the math section? That's opening the door to all sorts of security issues. And they're certainly saving money, the digital is the same cost as the paper[1]. [1] https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/sat/help-center/students/pricing-fees https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/sat/help-center/students/p...
  - gnicholas 3y ago
    They've already rolled out in international testing, but yeah the comments here make me think there are going to be some massive cheating if they don't tighten things up. "you are not allowed to bring any electronics into the testing center (except a computer that you own, possibly running a VM)!" isn't likely to deter cheaters.

This sounds more about cuttings costs than anything else.

cpncrunch 3y ago

It sounds like efficiency.

nsriv 3y ago
Anybody that's taken a proctored online exam in high schools knows that this is absolutely not about efficiency. With universities rolling back test-optional pandemic policies, the College Board is likely to raise the price of exams and drive down the cost of administering them by gutting support. I'd predict more frequent exam dates once people have absorbed the price increase. Driving that velocity requires online administration.

screamingninja 3y ago

Agreed; this will further devalue these standardized tests when the results cannot be fully trusted and stop correlating with academic success.

throw1234651234 3y ago
I don't know why the above got downvoted - it's absolutely true. There is a reason I have to go into a testing center or sit there with my camera on with a proctor watching when taking cloud exams. I don't see how hard it can be to keep organizing SATs once a year - plus it really does generate a shared identity, which is something we are all sorely lacking. It was a big event to go to a different school to take the SAT.
- r00fus 3y ago
  You will still go in, but it will be on a computer there.
tehjoker 3y ago
all true, but at least there will be one fewer setting students are forcibly exposed to COVID-19 in
- pc86 3y ago
  It's 2024, the pandemic has been over for a number of years now.
  - ribosometronome 3y ago
    Because the disease became endemic, yes.
  - UncleSlacky 3y ago
    The "emergency phase" was declared over, however we're still in a pandemic. Most people want to pretend it's over, but nobody has told the virus.
    - pc86 3y ago
      COVID is endemic. Endemic and pandemic are mutually exclusive things.
      - Dylan16807 3y ago
        Physically, one is a subset of the other. It's only "mutually exclusive" from a specific (misleading) angle.
        pc86 3y ago
        What angle? I'm talking about the definitions of the words. Pandemic: occurring over a wide geographic area (such as multiple countries or continents) and typically affecting a significant proportion of the population; characterized by very widespread growth or extent Endemic: characteristic of or prevalent in a particular field, area, or environment; a disease or outbreak of disease that is typically present in a particular region or population : an endemic disease COVID doesn't even really qualify as endemic based on the dictionary definition, but it's certainly not a pandemic.
dandesim 3y ago
This are big statements to be making with no rationale. These will still be proctored exams in person, so there is no reason to believe that cheating will increase. Additionally, there is low indicators from the start that standardized tests correlate with academic success, hence the number of higher ed institutions no longer requiring them. People who want to cheat will always find a way to cheat. All you need to do now is go to the bathroom and lookup answers on your phone.
- ghaff 3y ago
  Standardized tests actually correlate better with academic success than a number of other measures. Some Ivies have recently been reinstituting standardized testing requirements.
  - dandesim 3y ago
    That’s just straight false, or at least I have never seen any evidence showing a strong correlation. What has been shown is the negative advantage minorities, impoverished, ESL, disabled people have when taking the test and the advantages that wealthy people who can pay for tutors have.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      ANd yet there's widespread reinstitution of standardized test requirements, see e.g. https://admissions.dartmouth.edu/apply/update-testing-policy https://admissions.dartmouth.edu/apply/update-testing-policy
    - knightoffaith 3y ago
      >What has been shown is the negative advantage minorities, impoverished, ESL, disabled people have when taking the test and the advantages that wealthy people who can pay for tutors have. How does this contradict the GP? This doesn't necessarily seem inconsistent with standardized tests correlating better with academic success on its face. Because I would expect that such people tend to have not just worse standardized test scores but also worse academic success (because of the advantages that wealthy people have that these people lack).
r00fus 3y ago
"Students will still take the exam at a test center or at a high school." You're not going to be able to take this with an iPad on your couch (or with a friend/parent nearby). Likely just as draconian as today, except no pencils required.
gnicholas 3y ago
How will this devalue the test? The only way in which the test is easier is that it's shorter, so students who lose steam toward the end will perform somewhat better. But this shorter test is dynamic, so it will still be able to assess students fairly, at all levels. In truth, it could even open the door to allowing for a higher ceiling, by offering even harder questions to students who score super well on earlier portions. That could make the test (and a coveted 1600+ score) even more trusted as a marker of academic ability/readiness.
- goryramsy 3y ago
  Would not 'losing steam' on a long test be indicative of motivation and also be part of the test? Remember, the test is a lot more than the questions; the test is also about pacing and focus.
  - gnicholas 3y ago
    There is something to be said for endurance, and I admit that the new test will not test endurance as much. But I think most people don't think of the primary role of the SAT as an endurance test. When I was in HS, we had IB tests that were much longer, and were seen as grueling tests of endurance. And after law school, I took the CA bar exam, which was at the time the only 3-day bar exam. It was (in)famous for endurance. But do people think the SAT is measuring endurance? I don't, but perhaps others do. One thing that won't change is any effect on pacing. The SAT previously had sections, and it will continue to have sections. You still have to pace yourself through each section. But there was never a way to pace yourself across sections, through the entire test. You had to wait until one section was done before starting the next.

gnicholas 3y ago

How does this cut costs? I would think they'll be spending a ton on online security and such. Imagine the fallout if this is hacked or goes down on test day. They will save some money on proctoring, since the exam is much shorter in duration.

goryramsy 3y ago
It would not surprise me if the test was delayed last minute due to a security issue. I've seen firsthand the level of security in the testing application, and it is worryingly lacking. Did you know that they literally link 'desmos.com/calculator' as the calculator in the math section? That's opening the door to all sorts of security issues. And they're certainly saving money, the digital is the same cost as the paper[1]. [1] https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/sat/help-center/students/pricing-fees https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/sat/help-center/students/p...
- gnicholas 3y ago
  They've already rolled out in international testing, but yeah the comments here make me think there are going to be some massive cheating if they don't tighten things up. "you are not allowed to bring any electronics into the testing center (except a computer that you own, possibly running a VM)!" isn't likely to deter cheaters.