5 ms·

Fun :) The point of esoteric languages isn't to be practical, another example of a "strange" language is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esoteric_programming_lang

by tsbinz 3y ago

Fun :) The point of esoteric languages isn't to be practical, another example of a "strange" language is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esoteric_programming_language#Piet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esoteric_programming_language#... / https://esolangs.org/wiki/Piet https://esolangs.org/wiki/Piet

Rochus 3y ago
Maybe. But why should someone take the time to build a technolgoy intentionally without a practical use? With the same effort one can build a useful language, even adding new ideas that will advance development, which is also fun. But actually concluding from the article it seems the author was rather serious about his language; there is no indication he considered it not practical. But unfortunately there is no rationale or reference use case. EDIT: I cannot believe my top comment was flagged. So have we already reached the point on HN where you are no longer even allowed to ask about the purpose of something or express an opinion?
- AlecSchueler 3y ago
  Yes, other things can be fun, they can even be fun while being practically useful, but this was still created for fun.
  - Rochus 3y ago
    > but this was still created for fun Why/how do you know this was created for fun? Are you the author?
    - AlecSchueler 3y ago
      I'm not the author. I thought you were asking the people of HN since you asked here rather than emailing the author. I've been interested in the esoteric programming language scene since 2009 and in my experience most of the work is done for the joy of it, and the joy of exploring intellectual curiosity. It's true that the author here could be an exception but, as I say, you should contact them directly if it's very important that you understand their motivation.
      - Rochus 3y ago
        Well, it's posted here by someone for some reason. I didn't search for it, but was curious what the purpuse is of this idea, since I have a lot to do with MIDI, algorithmic composition and programming languages.
- reactordev 3y ago
  Your definition of usefulness and mine differ. What you find useful, I find contrived. What I find useful, you find dull. The author was indeed serious about it, in the fact that it's a thing you can play with. Brainfuck doesn't need usefulness to exist. Typescript either. It doesn't always have to be advancing the art of programming. I'd say these fun projects advance the art of mankind.
  - Rochus 3y ago
    > these fun projects advance the art of mankind In which way?
    - reactordev 3y ago
      Someone will attempt a Mozart-themed binary sort. It will cause them to either have profound insight into Mozart, or profound insight into programming. Possibly both. Paving the way for the next SoundCloud. You never know. Not everything seems as useless on the surface.
      - Rochus 3y ago
        > Not everything seems as useless on the surface. And vice versa.
- andrewflnr 3y ago
  For the same effort you put into any piece of art, you could always do something more economical, and yet lots of people take their art very seriously.
  - Rochus 3y ago
    It's a piece of technology, and it has function. It just hasn't an obvious use case. If someone publishes a programming language, usually they provide examples and a descripton on the purpose of the language, or in which way it improves over other existing languages. It doesnt make any sence to publish a technology which has no obvious use case without any explanation of its intended purpose.
    - andrewflnr 3y ago
      Do you think being a piece of technology means that it can't also be art? (They could stand to put some examples on the front page, that's fair.)
      - Rochus 3y ago
        Technology always includes aspects of art; but form follows function.
- mapreduce 3y ago
  > Maybe. but with the same effort one can build a useful language, even adding new ideas that will advance development, which is also fun. So others must have fun the way you approve of? Otherwise they are having fun wrong?
- alpaca128 3y ago
  Nobody is obligated to "advance development". Also many innovative ideas come from projects that are done without the expectation to get value out of it. > it seems the author was rather serious about his language You kind of have to be serious about something in order to invest many hours into creating and finishing it. It can still be fun.
  - Rochus 3y ago
    > You kind of have to be serious about something in order to invest many hours into creating and finishing it. Well, then at least there must have been some vision or goal, thus my question.
asimpletune 3y ago
I can't comment directly under the OC's thread anymore, but the music he makes on his website is legitimately cool http://rochus-keller.ch/?p=237 http://rochus-keller.ch/?p=237
- Rochus 3y ago
  This music is forty years old now; if you wan't to hear something more recent, here it is: http://rochus-keller.ch/?p=1268 http://rochus-keller.ch/?p=1268

by tsbinz 3y ago

Rochus 3y ago

Maybe. But why should someone take the time to build a technolgoy intentionally without a practical use? With the same effort one can build a useful language, even adding new ideas that will advance development, which is also fun. But actually concluding from the article it seems the author was rather serious about his language; there is no indication he considered it not practical. But unfortunately there is no rationale or reference use case. EDIT: I cannot believe my top comment was flagged. So have we already reached the point on HN where you are no longer even allowed to ask about the purpose of something or express an opinion?

AlecSchueler 3y ago
Yes, other things can be fun, they can even be fun while being practically useful, but this was still created for fun.
- Rochus 3y ago
  > but this was still created for fun Why/how do you know this was created for fun? Are you the author?
  - AlecSchueler 3y ago
    I'm not the author. I thought you were asking the people of HN since you asked here rather than emailing the author. I've been interested in the esoteric programming language scene since 2009 and in my experience most of the work is done for the joy of it, and the joy of exploring intellectual curiosity. It's true that the author here could be an exception but, as I say, you should contact them directly if it's very important that you understand their motivation.
    - Rochus 3y ago
      Well, it's posted here by someone for some reason. I didn't search for it, but was curious what the purpuse is of this idea, since I have a lot to do with MIDI, algorithmic composition and programming languages.
reactordev 3y ago
Your definition of usefulness and mine differ. What you find useful, I find contrived. What I find useful, you find dull. The author was indeed serious about it, in the fact that it's a thing you can play with. Brainfuck doesn't need usefulness to exist. Typescript either. It doesn't always have to be advancing the art of programming. I'd say these fun projects advance the art of mankind.
- Rochus 3y ago
  > these fun projects advance the art of mankind In which way?
  - reactordev 3y ago
    Someone will attempt a Mozart-themed binary sort. It will cause them to either have profound insight into Mozart, or profound insight into programming. Possibly both. Paving the way for the next SoundCloud. You never know. Not everything seems as useless on the surface.
    - Rochus 3y ago
      > Not everything seems as useless on the surface. And vice versa.
andrewflnr 3y ago
For the same effort you put into any piece of art, you could always do something more economical, and yet lots of people take their art very seriously.
- Rochus 3y ago
  It's a piece of technology, and it has function. It just hasn't an obvious use case. If someone publishes a programming language, usually they provide examples and a descripton on the purpose of the language, or in which way it improves over other existing languages. It doesnt make any sence to publish a technology which has no obvious use case without any explanation of its intended purpose.
  - andrewflnr 3y ago
    Do you think being a piece of technology means that it can't also be art? (They could stand to put some examples on the front page, that's fair.)
    - Rochus 3y ago
      Technology always includes aspects of art; but form follows function.
mapreduce 3y ago
> Maybe. but with the same effort one can build a useful language, even adding new ideas that will advance development, which is also fun. So others must have fun the way you approve of? Otherwise they are having fun wrong?
alpaca128 3y ago
Nobody is obligated to "advance development". Also many innovative ideas come from projects that are done without the expectation to get value out of it. > it seems the author was rather serious about his language You kind of have to be serious about something in order to invest many hours into creating and finishing it. It can still be fun.
- Rochus 3y ago
  > You kind of have to be serious about something in order to invest many hours into creating and finishing it. Well, then at least there must have been some vision or goal, thus my question.

asimpletune 3y ago

I can't comment directly under the OC's thread anymore, but the music he makes on his website is legitimately cool http://rochus-keller.ch/?p=237 http://rochus-keller.ch/?p=237

Rochus 3y ago
This music is forty years old now; if you wan't to hear something more recent, here it is: http://rochus-keller.ch/?p=1268 http://rochus-keller.ch/?p=1268