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I am really a proponent of the Chinese system. I’m a real estate investor and this “free market” isn’t going to last much longer since owning vacant homes will

I am really a proponent of the Chinese system. I’m a real estate investor and this “free market” isn’t going to last much longer since owning vacant homes will net you more than virtually anything else you could do legally. Real Estate is a free money machine, and it won’t stop until we adopt realistic government controlled system.

Auracle 3y ago
Real estate will continue to be a good investment as long as demand outstrips supply.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
carom 3y ago
What is the Chinese system?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- trimethylpurine 3y ago
  The Chinese system restricts foreign nation state actors from buying everything so they will not be able to do what China is doing to the US. The US has only just started writing policies to address that (for example: [1]), probably because for so many decades Americans wanted to believe that China was an ally, or at least a well meaning business partner. China proves that capitalism doesn't work by destroying it. [1] https://www.faegredrinker.com/en/insights/publications/2024/1/influx-of-state-statutes-regulating-foreign-ownership-of-us-real-estate https://www.faegredrinker.com/en/insights/publications/2024/...
  - xbmcuser 3y ago
    China is not doing anything to the US, western countries were willing to hide the black money of countries before as it helped their economies. As China and other countries got richer the amount of money those people started bringing and putting into the real estate of western cities in the world exploded. The property market crash of 2008 and low interest rates made the situation worse. Now people in the west are crying about property prices but if they stopped allowing in black money from countries they would not face the problem they do. If they can find out about terror financing etc then they for sure can find all the corruption and black money coming into their countries/cities.
    - trimethylpurine 3y ago
      >China is not doing anything to the US In many cases the ownership has been traced to government funding. The suspicion is that these are just the tip of the iceberg. So, at least in the eyes of the US Congress, based on some damning evidence, China is doing something to the US. That said, "black money" is also a problem. But I suspect that's the case in China as well. There's no way to eliminate all corruption, even in China.
    - pyr0hu 3y ago
      China is doing the same in the EU. In european capitals, they are buying up the properties, increasing the rents and pushing out young couples from renting flats for a reasonable price. There are districts in Budapest where all flats are owned by chinese people. How does it help the EU economies, if they are leasing without contract, without tax, without anything illegally? They came every month, you pay in cash, no trace (but this applies to 99% of hungary renting, so it's the issue with the current rental system), they aren't even injecting money into the economy this way. And it's getting ridiculous that 26-28 year old people cannot rent a flat by themselves and have to resort to renting a single room only for 30-40% of their salaries.
      - xbmcuser 3y ago
        It's not china ie chinese government doing it but rather Chinese people purchasing residential properties. Chinese government is interested more in stuff like ports, airports/infrastructure. In actual fact China would prefer the money it's population is spending abroad is spent at home specially since the COVID slow down has slowed it's economic growth. So china restricts money going out of its borders now western countries could help China block it but that would be helpful to Chinese communist government so they don't and that is resulting in their own citizens getting priced out of their own cities.
  - Y_Y 3y ago
    What on earth is a "foreign nation state actor"? Do you mean "country"?
    - trimethylpurine 3y ago
      In the US this term is used to distinguish a country's government from its people. It refers specifically to a person or enterprise acting at the direction or as part of a country's government or military, as opposed to a private citizen. That's an important distinction in a country obsessed with protecting civil rights where nationality is a protected class. Under US law, preventing the purchase of a house based on national origin is unconstitutional. But if they are acting on behalf of a foreign government... You get the idea.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
Georgelemental 3y ago
Didn't the Chinese real estate market collapse recently, with several major bankruptcies?
- dash2 3y ago
  Yeah, and allegedly the super-efficient government controlled system has built on the order of 4 bn houses for 1.5 bn Chinese. This might be the largest and most costly housing bubble in history, and I believe it happened partly because China is terrified of letting its banks fail. If you think the "Greenspan put" is a thing, just wait till you hear about the PBOC put.
  - scotty79 3y ago
    It's a proof that "just build more houses" will never work as a solution to housing problem. Investors are simply insatiable.
oatmeal1 3y ago
> Real Estate is a free money machine, and it won’t stop until we adopt realistic government controlled system. Real Estate will stop being a free money machine when the government stops artificially restricting housing supply with single-use, single-family zoning.
- __loam 3y ago
  I agree that we should relax residential zoning laws but it does feel pretty naive to think the free market alone will solve this. I doubt everyone being adequately housed is even the optimal state of the free market.
  - Geisterde 3y ago
    Its not a free market, we are closer to communist than we are free markets.
    - __loam 3y ago
      Communist would be building concrete prefabs until we could house everyone. That's one of the few things the Soviets did right.
      - scotty79 3y ago
        It's kind of funny how Chinese communists tried to build enough concrete prefabs not only for people to be housed but also for people who want to invest and it backfired spectacularly. The investor class is simply insatiable and you can't just satisfy the demand because it's always growing beyond all reason. You need to curb investors interest in real estate.
        Geisterde 3y ago
        Ok, I have an idea, lets stop printing new money directly into the housing market through the federal reserve. Without it, there is no guarentee that a house will appreciate, in fact most homes would be considered depreciating assets. The cost of homes would plung 80, maybe 90%, and housing would be radically more affordable. Id be totally hosed, but I would find that a reasonable compromise.
kaashif 3y ago
> it won’t stop until we adopt realistic government controlled system. Are you aware that the government is the entity preventing housing from being built in many cities? I don't think zoning should be abolished or anything but clearly the regulations the US has now, at least, are incorrect and restrict supply far too much.
margalabargala 3y ago
> Real Estate is a free money machine, and it won’t stop until we adopt realistic government controlled system. On the contrary, the skyrocketing homelessness rates around the country are showing that demand for housing is more elastic than people thought.

Auracle 3y ago

Real estate will continue to be a good investment as long as demand outstrips supply.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

carom 3y ago

What is the Chinese system?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
trimethylpurine 3y ago
The Chinese system restricts foreign nation state actors from buying everything so they will not be able to do what China is doing to the US. The US has only just started writing policies to address that (for example: [1]), probably because for so many decades Americans wanted to believe that China was an ally, or at least a well meaning business partner. China proves that capitalism doesn't work by destroying it. [1] https://www.faegredrinker.com/en/insights/publications/2024/1/influx-of-state-statutes-regulating-foreign-ownership-of-us-real-estate https://www.faegredrinker.com/en/insights/publications/2024/...
- xbmcuser 3y ago
  China is not doing anything to the US, western countries were willing to hide the black money of countries before as it helped their economies. As China and other countries got richer the amount of money those people started bringing and putting into the real estate of western cities in the world exploded. The property market crash of 2008 and low interest rates made the situation worse. Now people in the west are crying about property prices but if they stopped allowing in black money from countries they would not face the problem they do. If they can find out about terror financing etc then they for sure can find all the corruption and black money coming into their countries/cities.
  - trimethylpurine 3y ago
    >China is not doing anything to the US In many cases the ownership has been traced to government funding. The suspicion is that these are just the tip of the iceberg. So, at least in the eyes of the US Congress, based on some damning evidence, China is doing something to the US. That said, "black money" is also a problem. But I suspect that's the case in China as well. There's no way to eliminate all corruption, even in China.
  - pyr0hu 3y ago
    China is doing the same in the EU. In european capitals, they are buying up the properties, increasing the rents and pushing out young couples from renting flats for a reasonable price. There are districts in Budapest where all flats are owned by chinese people. How does it help the EU economies, if they are leasing without contract, without tax, without anything illegally? They came every month, you pay in cash, no trace (but this applies to 99% of hungary renting, so it's the issue with the current rental system), they aren't even injecting money into the economy this way. And it's getting ridiculous that 26-28 year old people cannot rent a flat by themselves and have to resort to renting a single room only for 30-40% of their salaries.
    - xbmcuser 3y ago
      It's not china ie chinese government doing it but rather Chinese people purchasing residential properties. Chinese government is interested more in stuff like ports, airports/infrastructure. In actual fact China would prefer the money it's population is spending abroad is spent at home specially since the COVID slow down has slowed it's economic growth. So china restricts money going out of its borders now western countries could help China block it but that would be helpful to Chinese communist government so they don't and that is resulting in their own citizens getting priced out of their own cities.
- Y_Y 3y ago
  What on earth is a "foreign nation state actor"? Do you mean "country"?
  - trimethylpurine 3y ago
    In the US this term is used to distinguish a country's government from its people. It refers specifically to a person or enterprise acting at the direction or as part of a country's government or military, as opposed to a private citizen. That's an important distinction in a country obsessed with protecting civil rights where nationality is a protected class. Under US law, preventing the purchase of a house based on national origin is unconstitutional. But if they are acting on behalf of a foreign government... You get the idea.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

Georgelemental 3y ago

Didn't the Chinese real estate market collapse recently, with several major bankruptcies?

dash2 3y ago
Yeah, and allegedly the super-efficient government controlled system has built on the order of 4 bn houses for 1.5 bn Chinese. This might be the largest and most costly housing bubble in history, and I believe it happened partly because China is terrified of letting its banks fail. If you think the "Greenspan put" is a thing, just wait till you hear about the PBOC put.
- scotty79 3y ago
  It's a proof that "just build more houses" will never work as a solution to housing problem. Investors are simply insatiable.

oatmeal1 3y ago

> Real Estate is a free money machine, and it won’t stop until we adopt realistic government controlled system. Real Estate will stop being a free money machine when the government stops artificially restricting housing supply with single-use, single-family zoning.

__loam 3y ago
I agree that we should relax residential zoning laws but it does feel pretty naive to think the free market alone will solve this. I doubt everyone being adequately housed is even the optimal state of the free market.
- Geisterde 3y ago
  Its not a free market, we are closer to communist than we are free markets.
  - __loam 3y ago
    Communist would be building concrete prefabs until we could house everyone. That's one of the few things the Soviets did right.
    - scotty79 3y ago
      It's kind of funny how Chinese communists tried to build enough concrete prefabs not only for people to be housed but also for people who want to invest and it backfired spectacularly. The investor class is simply insatiable and you can't just satisfy the demand because it's always growing beyond all reason. You need to curb investors interest in real estate.
      - Geisterde 3y ago
        Ok, I have an idea, lets stop printing new money directly into the housing market through the federal reserve. Without it, there is no guarentee that a house will appreciate, in fact most homes would be considered depreciating assets. The cost of homes would plung 80, maybe 90%, and housing would be radically more affordable. Id be totally hosed, but I would find that a reasonable compromise.

kaashif 3y ago

> it won’t stop until we adopt realistic government controlled system. Are you aware that the government is the entity preventing housing from being built in many cities? I don't think zoning should be abolished or anything but clearly the regulations the US has now, at least, are incorrect and restrict supply far too much.

margalabargala 3y ago

> Real Estate is a free money machine, and it won’t stop until we adopt realistic government controlled system. On the contrary, the skyrocketing homelessness rates around the country are showing that demand for housing is more elastic than people thought.