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During this energy transition phase more emphasis should be on PHEVs since 1. We have the infrastructure to build PHEVs faster than EVs. Since they are mostly

During this energy transition phase more emphasis should be on PHEVs since 1. We have the infrastructure to build PHEVs faster than EVs. Since they are mostly modifications of current vehicles. 2. With the same amount of battery material to make 1 EV we can make ~10 PHEVs and adding that to the fact that most people drive less than 40 miles per day, the effective electric range of a typical PHEV, you are utilizing the battery supply at a much higher level. I think the current incentives and tax breaks that favor high end luxury EVs have been a mistake. If you can afford a Tesla Model S or a Rivian you don't need a tax incentive to buy it!

thatfrenchguy 3y ago
Yeah I think the main issue with PHEVs is essentially that people don’t charge them / do the majority of their kilometers / miles on the ICE engine :). See https://theicct.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/real-world-phev-us-dec22.pdf https://theicct.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/real-world-ph...
- btgeekboy 3y ago
  Anecdotally, I recently rented a Jeep Wrangler PHEV. Didn’t choose that model specifically; was expecting a Prius but it’s what the rental counter gave me. The battery was dead when I picked it up. It was dead when I returned it, despite me actually looking for a L2 charger just to see what it would be like to drive fully on battery. It did drive as a hybrid (I could feel the ICE stop and start) but it wasn’t nearly as efficient as it could have been, especially considering my entire rental was probably under 100 miles.
mathgradthrow 3y ago
they also completely solve the range problem.
LUmBULtERA 3y ago
I'm not inclined to think that the battery material is really the largest constraint to building efficient PHEV/EVs though. I'm in VA and when I was looking for a 2023/2024 Prius Prime to test drive, not a single one was in stock within hours of me. To test drive one, I'd have to drive hours into Maryland or Pennsylvania and then if I wanted it, likely have to pay way over MSRP plus bs doc fees, "upgrades" and other nonsense. I eventually said F that shit and just bought a Tesla that is 100% battery. They're easily available, in inventory, despite each one perhaps having 10 times the amount of battery than the Prius Prime. Given the ease there is to buy a Tesla, and the easy availability of Mach-E and the Kia and Hyundai EVs, I can't believe that the whole 10 PHEV = 1 EV is an equation of any importance.
marssaxman 3y ago
While that's true now, I think the incentives were still a good idea, because nothing is cheap when it's being manufactured at low volume. Somebody had to stump up the cash to build the battery factories, and the tax breaks helped get that process started.

thatfrenchguy 3y ago

Yeah I think the main issue with PHEVs is essentially that people don’t charge them / do the majority of their kilometers / miles on the ICE engine :). See https://theicct.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/real-world-phev-us-dec22.pdf https://theicct.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/real-world-ph...

btgeekboy 3y ago
Anecdotally, I recently rented a Jeep Wrangler PHEV. Didn’t choose that model specifically; was expecting a Prius but it’s what the rental counter gave me. The battery was dead when I picked it up. It was dead when I returned it, despite me actually looking for a L2 charger just to see what it would be like to drive fully on battery. It did drive as a hybrid (I could feel the ICE stop and start) but it wasn’t nearly as efficient as it could have been, especially considering my entire rental was probably under 100 miles.

mathgradthrow 3y ago

they also completely solve the range problem.

LUmBULtERA 3y ago

I'm not inclined to think that the battery material is really the largest constraint to building efficient PHEV/EVs though. I'm in VA and when I was looking for a 2023/2024 Prius Prime to test drive, not a single one was in stock within hours of me. To test drive one, I'd have to drive hours into Maryland or Pennsylvania and then if I wanted it, likely have to pay way over MSRP plus bs doc fees, "upgrades" and other nonsense. I eventually said F that shit and just bought a Tesla that is 100% battery. They're easily available, in inventory, despite each one perhaps having 10 times the amount of battery than the Prius Prime. Given the ease there is to buy a Tesla, and the easy availability of Mach-E and the Kia and Hyundai EVs, I can't believe that the whole 10 PHEV = 1 EV is an equation of any importance.

marssaxman 3y ago

While that's true now, I think the incentives were still a good idea, because nothing is cheap when it's being manufactured at low volume. Somebody had to stump up the cash to build the battery factories, and the tax breaks helped get that process started.