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Vizio recently changed their firmware on my tv to require you to use the smart cast app just to watch antenna. It's slow and buggy and causes nothing but proble

Vizio recently changed their firmware on my tv to require you to use the smart cast app just to watch antenna. It's slow and buggy and causes nothing but problems, the people writing the software clearly never use one of these tvs. Dumb stuff like it would mute my receiver every time I switch channels and immediately unmute, except sometimes the unmute would fail. It’s a shame, it was a great little tv, but this push for more ad views means I’d never recommend a Vizio to anyone. I know the common refrain is don’t connect tv to the internet, but for whatever reason the Vizio showed up in chromecast at times when the Roku stick wouldn’t, otherwise didn’t use tv smart features

ngokevin 3y ago
On the other hand, I got a Vizio. I've been loving every update. They've added wireless Bluetooth support so I can connect with headphones, made the UI extremely snappy, made the volume overlay be non-obtrusive in the corner.
- jonnycoder 3y ago
  Hey I worked on that project along with bluetooth voice remote. I personally spent a few weeks during Christmas time (2020 or 2019?) making sure the bluetooth pairing process was rock solid. Ending up root causing two deadlock bugs that had a repro rate of like 1 in 50. The engineering leadership was going downhill with layoffs and politics. We would have the quality of the firmware/smartcast be rock solid and then following quarter it took a nose dive. Some of the best people I ever worked with are no longer there. And last I know, VIZIO isn't like samsung and tries to randomly find an internet connection to update firmware. I still use my free 70in with Apple TV and it is great because I disconnected it from the internet (after I was laid off).
chatmasta 3y ago
It's insane that "changed their firmware on my tv" is even something that can happen. I'd like to buy a TV and know it will work the same in two decades as it does today. Personally, I don't own any TV, since I use my monitors. But it does beg the question of why monitors don't have these kinds of issues. Why are companies happy to sell me a "dumb" monitor, but won't sell me a TV unless it includes a bunch of fragile "smart" features? The trend of coupling the TV to the computer (as opposed to using something like Chromecast) is the primary driver of the enshittification of the TV market. And this shouldn't be surprising - just look at what happened when the auto industry tried to invent and maintain their own entertainment systems. Ironically, they eventually came around to decoupling and delegating that work to Apple and Google, whereas TVs had it right at first and then made it worse. I understand the business reasons why TV manufacturers want to own the computer part of their TV too. But it still doesn't have to be tightly coupled to the TV. If they really believed in their product, they could sell a dumb TV along with a dongle that competes with Chromecast. But if their product sucks and nobody would buy it, then they need to resort to forcing it on consumers as the default mode of operation.
- sonicanatidae 3y ago
  I would love to see them change the firmware on my TV that isn't connected to the internet for reasons just like this. They can keep their abuseware.
- Spivak 3y ago
  > I'd like to buy a TV and know it will work the same in two decades as it does today. TVs from about a decade ago fit the bill while being of "acceptable" 1080p quality. Lord knows the manufacturers aren't bothering with updates anymore if they even supported them. My primary TV is a Samsung from 2012 and I've never felt the need to upgrade. I can't tell any quality difference from any non-high end TV today.
  - unclebucknasty 3y ago
    This should be a consumer protection issue across the board. So, you're using a free or subscription service that's enshittifying. Bad enough, but okay just stop using it or unsubscribe. But, the idea that you can outright buy a product then have it change in any way that materially impacts its usefulness or your satisfaction with it is customer hostile at a minimum; and straight-up fraud at worst. Between everything-as-a-subscription, monopolies, the rise of the billionaire oligarchy, defanging of our regulatory apparatus, Citizens United, etc. we're becoming a society of semi-autonomous renters. But, I guess we shouldn't worry too much. Soon enough, Zuck will bring us our VR utopia, and we'll all be eating steak in the matrix.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  >I'd like to buy a TV and know it will work the same in two decades as it does today. Don't connect it to the internet.
  - squiffsquiff 3y ago
    Are you aware that in order to use many models of TV at all, you are required to connect them to the internet?
avgDev 3y ago
After owning my Vizio TV for like 4 years I am taking it back to Costco. The experience has gotten progressively worse with the updates. It is just so laggy and extremely frustrating. I'm going to tell costco the updates ruined the TV.
- footlose_3815 3y ago
  As a rule of thumb, I never connect my smart TVs to the internet. I go chromecast or PC connection. Some may say there may be improvements, but the streamed ads, and surveillance and phoning home of my behavior, the benefits of privacy certainly outweigh the downsides.
  - theryan 3y ago
    I used to love my Chromecast but I feel like it's gone downhill significantly. The amount of bloat and ads when you fire it up is annoying. Thankfully there is an 'Apps only' mode now but you are still plastered with ads before you can select an app.
  - ssgodderidge 3y ago
    I did the same thing with my old Samsung. Disconnected it from wifi and immediately had way faster boot-up times. The ads were really bogging it down. Somehow, 3 years later, it still recommends the movie "Hancock" every time I turn it on. Perhaps it was the last ad it ever fetched? And it has an eternal cache? Who knows. Turn off wifi, get a chromecast, an Apple TV, or a gaming console.
    - avgDev 3y ago
      Consoles are getting ads now too.
      - footlose_3815 3y ago
        Yes. Ever since Microsoft started serving ads with "Tiles" on the new Xbox 360 interface, back in Windows 8 era, the enshittification began the creep. Xbox one, it's bundles of ads. When it first released, the UX was so horrible, I remember getting lost trying to find the menu to launch a game from disc. I had to page through ads just to find it. Playstation, there's popups, and non-disable-able promotions for games and subsriptions. (There's also these "Stories" I think they're called, that tell you about the progress in a game, that are heavy with spoilers"). Both interfaces are masterclasses in optimizing noise/signal and adding as much noise as possible before the user stops using it.
we_love_idf 3y ago
[flagged]
- cooper_ganglia 3y ago
  Ironically, the only “whiner” comment I’ve seen has been this one, whining about people whining. The topic is about Walmart purchasing Vizio. Discussing the quality of Vizio’s products, their business practices, and anecdotal experience + general discussion about the companies involved in the purchase are entirely reasonable.
  - we_love_idf 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - callalex 3y ago
      [flagged]
  - kevincrane 3y ago
    Complaining that no one actually read or is engaging with the posted article is absolutely less whiny than airing grievances that are only tangentially related to the posted topic.
- idunno246 3y ago
  The article said they were buying it for the ad business, and the ad business it’s what is actively making the tvs worse
ztetranz 3y ago
This was a big deal to RV / motorhome users. I remember a Reddit thread where people were complaining that they couldn't use the TV without internet service. There were some Vizio people on the thread insisting that you don't need internet so I don't know the whole truth but at seems at least it wasn't obvious to a non-technical user how to simply connect an antenna and watch over the air TV. My RV has a Vizio TV but it's old enough to not be smart. I don't watch OTA anyway.
- bonton89 3y ago
  The next OTA broadcast standard has an internet connection requirement for targeted ads built into it, that is how far gone we are. My policy is to never connect these TVs to the internet. If I accidentally bought one that required it I would return it to the store as defective. Of course, that won't stop them from programming the firmware to wait until outside the return period to start demanding internet access. And I expect sets to start showing up with built in 5G you can't turn off quite soon. The perversion of ad and user tracking will never be satisfied, it is a cancer that only stops if the host cells have entirely died.

ngokevin 3y ago

On the other hand, I got a Vizio. I've been loving every update. They've added wireless Bluetooth support so I can connect with headphones, made the UI extremely snappy, made the volume overlay be non-obtrusive in the corner.

jonnycoder 3y ago
Hey I worked on that project along with bluetooth voice remote. I personally spent a few weeks during Christmas time (2020 or 2019?) making sure the bluetooth pairing process was rock solid. Ending up root causing two deadlock bugs that had a repro rate of like 1 in 50. The engineering leadership was going downhill with layoffs and politics. We would have the quality of the firmware/smartcast be rock solid and then following quarter it took a nose dive. Some of the best people I ever worked with are no longer there. And last I know, VIZIO isn't like samsung and tries to randomly find an internet connection to update firmware. I still use my free 70in with Apple TV and it is great because I disconnected it from the internet (after I was laid off).

chatmasta 3y ago

It's insane that "changed their firmware on my tv" is even something that can happen. I'd like to buy a TV and know it will work the same in two decades as it does today. Personally, I don't own any TV, since I use my monitors. But it does beg the question of why monitors don't have these kinds of issues. Why are companies happy to sell me a "dumb" monitor, but won't sell me a TV unless it includes a bunch of fragile "smart" features? The trend of coupling the TV to the computer (as opposed to using something like Chromecast) is the primary driver of the enshittification of the TV market. And this shouldn't be surprising - just look at what happened when the auto industry tried to invent and maintain their own entertainment systems. Ironically, they eventually came around to decoupling and delegating that work to Apple and Google, whereas TVs had it right at first and then made it worse. I understand the business reasons why TV manufacturers want to own the computer part of their TV too. But it still doesn't have to be tightly coupled to the TV. If they really believed in their product, they could sell a dumb TV along with a dongle that competes with Chromecast. But if their product sucks and nobody would buy it, then they need to resort to forcing it on consumers as the default mode of operation.

sonicanatidae 3y ago
I would love to see them change the firmware on my TV that isn't connected to the internet for reasons just like this. They can keep their abuseware.
Spivak 3y ago
> I'd like to buy a TV and know it will work the same in two decades as it does today. TVs from about a decade ago fit the bill while being of "acceptable" 1080p quality. Lord knows the manufacturers aren't bothering with updates anymore if they even supported them. My primary TV is a Samsung from 2012 and I've never felt the need to upgrade. I can't tell any quality difference from any non-high end TV today.
- unclebucknasty 3y ago
  This should be a consumer protection issue across the board. So, you're using a free or subscription service that's enshittifying. Bad enough, but okay just stop using it or unsubscribe. But, the idea that you can outright buy a product then have it change in any way that materially impacts its usefulness or your satisfaction with it is customer hostile at a minimum; and straight-up fraud at worst. Between everything-as-a-subscription, monopolies, the rise of the billionaire oligarchy, defanging of our regulatory apparatus, Citizens United, etc. we're becoming a society of semi-autonomous renters. But, I guess we shouldn't worry too much. Soon enough, Zuck will bring us our VR utopia, and we'll all be eating steak in the matrix.
Dalewyn 3y ago
>I'd like to buy a TV and know it will work the same in two decades as it does today. Don't connect it to the internet.
- squiffsquiff 3y ago
  Are you aware that in order to use many models of TV at all, you are required to connect them to the internet?

avgDev 3y ago

After owning my Vizio TV for like 4 years I am taking it back to Costco. The experience has gotten progressively worse with the updates. It is just so laggy and extremely frustrating. I'm going to tell costco the updates ruined the TV.

footlose_3815 3y ago
As a rule of thumb, I never connect my smart TVs to the internet. I go chromecast or PC connection. Some may say there may be improvements, but the streamed ads, and surveillance and phoning home of my behavior, the benefits of privacy certainly outweigh the downsides.
- theryan 3y ago
  I used to love my Chromecast but I feel like it's gone downhill significantly. The amount of bloat and ads when you fire it up is annoying. Thankfully there is an 'Apps only' mode now but you are still plastered with ads before you can select an app.
- ssgodderidge 3y ago
  I did the same thing with my old Samsung. Disconnected it from wifi and immediately had way faster boot-up times. The ads were really bogging it down. Somehow, 3 years later, it still recommends the movie "Hancock" every time I turn it on. Perhaps it was the last ad it ever fetched? And it has an eternal cache? Who knows. Turn off wifi, get a chromecast, an Apple TV, or a gaming console.
  - avgDev 3y ago
    Consoles are getting ads now too.
    - footlose_3815 3y ago
      Yes. Ever since Microsoft started serving ads with "Tiles" on the new Xbox 360 interface, back in Windows 8 era, the enshittification began the creep. Xbox one, it's bundles of ads. When it first released, the UX was so horrible, I remember getting lost trying to find the menu to launch a game from disc. I had to page through ads just to find it. Playstation, there's popups, and non-disable-able promotions for games and subsriptions. (There's also these "Stories" I think they're called, that tell you about the progress in a game, that are heavy with spoilers"). Both interfaces are masterclasses in optimizing noise/signal and adding as much noise as possible before the user stops using it.

we_love_idf 3y ago

[flagged]

cooper_ganglia 3y ago
Ironically, the only “whiner” comment I’ve seen has been this one, whining about people whining. The topic is about Walmart purchasing Vizio. Discussing the quality of Vizio’s products, their business practices, and anecdotal experience + general discussion about the companies involved in the purchase are entirely reasonable.
- we_love_idf 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - callalex 3y ago
    [flagged]
- kevincrane 3y ago
  Complaining that no one actually read or is engaging with the posted article is absolutely less whiny than airing grievances that are only tangentially related to the posted topic.
idunno246 3y ago
The article said they were buying it for the ad business, and the ad business it’s what is actively making the tvs worse

ztetranz 3y ago

This was a big deal to RV / motorhome users. I remember a Reddit thread where people were complaining that they couldn't use the TV without internet service. There were some Vizio people on the thread insisting that you don't need internet so I don't know the whole truth but at seems at least it wasn't obvious to a non-technical user how to simply connect an antenna and watch over the air TV. My RV has a Vizio TV but it's old enough to not be smart. I don't watch OTA anyway.

bonton89 3y ago
The next OTA broadcast standard has an internet connection requirement for targeted ads built into it, that is how far gone we are. My policy is to never connect these TVs to the internet. If I accidentally bought one that required it I would return it to the store as defective. Of course, that won't stop them from programming the firmware to wait until outside the return period to start demanding internet access. And I expect sets to start showing up with built in 5G you can't turn off quite soon. The perversion of ad and user tracking will never be satisfied, it is a cancer that only stops if the host cells have entirely died.