8 ms·

Speaking from personal experience, I moved from VSCode to Doom Emacs a year ago, and the on-ramp wasn't nearly long or as tough as I thought. The defaults are g

Speaking from personal experience, I moved from VSCode to Doom Emacs a year ago, and the on-ramp wasn't nearly long or as tough as I thought. The defaults are good, and anything else that I customized I actually just used ChatGPT/GPT-4 to generate it. It took about a month to get used to the new setup. With LSP/Magit, it feels like I'm not missing out on much from what VSCode offered, and then whenever I want to personalize it, I can. For a creative person (which I'd argue most developers are, kind of by definition), it's fun.

dleslie 3y ago
I've been using Emacs for roughly three decades; it's my favourite editor. And for sure, LSP has been an absolute game changer. Worth noting is that LSP came from Microsoft as part of their efforts to build a better editor experience; and its integration with VSCode is largely unparalleled. For example: in VSCode the user doesn't have to understand how to install a language server, it just automagically suggests allowing it to install one for you. In Emacs, if you're using the official distribution you will have eglot, whose developers specifically refuse to add that functionality. If you're savvy enough you can install lsp-mode and it will add that functionality, but at that point you may as well just install the language server yourself. And about magit: it's a beautiful piece of software, it truly is. It's also hot garbage with large repositories hosted on Windows. I simply cannot use it for work because every operation takes around a minute to resolve, which locks up Emacs entirely. Again, here VSCode shines because the default git integration is pretty good, and there are extensions that make it excellent. For these reasons, and more, I always recommend VSCode to new developers and don't recommend Emacs. Emacs is for people who want to make editor customization a _hobby_.
- chlorion 3y ago
  >For example: in VSCode the user doesn't have to understand how to install a language server, it just automagically suggests allowing it to install one for you. In Emacs, if you're using the official distribution you will have eglot, whose developers specifically refuse to add that functionality. I can understand this not being friendly for some users, but on most systems that people are using Emacs on, software is installed through a system package manager and not downloaded and unpacked into ${HOME}. I do not want software that isn't the system package manager to install LSP servers. Maybe this is more of an issue for people using Emacs on Windows, since there is no system package manager, and people are less likely to understand how to install stuff.
- kagevf 3y ago
  > Emacs is for people who want to make editor customization a _hobby_. I disagree. I use it for org mode to take notes, track time, and write documentation. I use it with SLIME to program in Common Lisp (side projects, though). I make changes to .emacs or write an elisp function once in a while, usually to finesse something that I do frequently, but it's definitely not a hobby. It's a great tool, even before any customizations, IMO.
- cmrdporcupine 3y ago
  "savvy enough" for emacs these days for lsp is literally "M-x package-install lsp-mode" Earlier today I started up emacs in a C++ project after working exclusively in Rust, and I didn't have an lsp server for C++ installed. I did M-x lsp-mode and it prompted me (paraphrased): No language server for C++ installed, do you want me to go get one for you? Options are: clangd. Sure, said I, and it just went and installed it and off I went. Granted, you'll also need company-mode and stuff, yes. And to get an IDE like experience... treemacs, projectile, etc. etc. Yes, it's an acquired taste. But it's not like it's obsolete. It's better and more active than it's ever been. And I've been using Emacs (mostly casually) since 1992.
  - dleslie 3y ago
    First you have to know that lsp-mode exists. VSCode just detects what to do from the file. About projectile: Emacs ships with project.el and that does 90% of what projectile can do.
    - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
      I'm sorry maybe this has improved in the two years since I tried but the last time I tried to set up VSCode to even approach the capabilities of CLion (the tool I used most at the time) it required a whole bunch of configuration, and stuff that felt more brittle and confusing than the emacs setup I have now. In particular, no, it did not do all the LSP stuff out of the box, and didn't do basic refactorings out of the box either. Maybe it does so for other languages? Or maybe they've fixed the UX? But I recall having to install at least two or three plugins. And along the way found some that fought with each other.
      - dleslie 3y ago
        I have never used VSCode for C/C++, only Emacs and Visual Studio, so I can't comment on how it compares to CLion. VSCode and C#, however, is something I prefer to Visual Studio or even Rider.
  - tmtvl 3y ago
- hollerith 3y ago
  I've also been using Emacs for 3 decades. Although I could probably be happy with vscode for coding, neither vscode nor any other app I am aware of is a satisfactory substitute for Emacs as a personal information manager (PIM) because neither vscode nor any other app can be modified easily enough. (Apparently, I care whether my PIM supports my personal way of working more than I care whether my code editor or IDE does.) Maybe if I were a professional web developer, I would be able to modify vscode in the ways I feel it needs to be modified to support my personal style after a reasonable investment in learning vscode internals, but that is manifestly not actually the case. BTW, I don't use and don't like org mode.

dleslie 3y ago

I've been using Emacs for roughly three decades; it's my favourite editor. And for sure, LSP has been an absolute game changer. Worth noting is that LSP came from Microsoft as part of their efforts to build a better editor experience; and its integration with VSCode is largely unparalleled. For example: in VSCode the user doesn't have to understand how to install a language server, it just automagically suggests allowing it to install one for you. In Emacs, if you're using the official distribution you will have eglot, whose developers specifically refuse to add that functionality. If you're savvy enough you can install lsp-mode and it will add that functionality, but at that point you may as well just install the language server yourself. And about magit: it's a beautiful piece of software, it truly is. It's also hot garbage with large repositories hosted on Windows. I simply cannot use it for work because every operation takes around a minute to resolve, which locks up Emacs entirely. Again, here VSCode shines because the default git integration is pretty good, and there are extensions that make it excellent. For these reasons, and more, I always recommend VSCode to new developers and don't recommend Emacs. Emacs is for people who want to make editor customization a _hobby_.

chlorion 3y ago
>For example: in VSCode the user doesn't have to understand how to install a language server, it just automagically suggests allowing it to install one for you. In Emacs, if you're using the official distribution you will have eglot, whose developers specifically refuse to add that functionality. I can understand this not being friendly for some users, but on most systems that people are using Emacs on, software is installed through a system package manager and not downloaded and unpacked into ${HOME}. I do not want software that isn't the system package manager to install LSP servers. Maybe this is more of an issue for people using Emacs on Windows, since there is no system package manager, and people are less likely to understand how to install stuff.
kagevf 3y ago
> Emacs is for people who want to make editor customization a _hobby_. I disagree. I use it for org mode to take notes, track time, and write documentation. I use it with SLIME to program in Common Lisp (side projects, though). I make changes to .emacs or write an elisp function once in a while, usually to finesse something that I do frequently, but it's definitely not a hobby. It's a great tool, even before any customizations, IMO.
cmrdporcupine 3y ago
"savvy enough" for emacs these days for lsp is literally "M-x package-install lsp-mode" Earlier today I started up emacs in a C++ project after working exclusively in Rust, and I didn't have an lsp server for C++ installed. I did M-x lsp-mode and it prompted me (paraphrased): No language server for C++ installed, do you want me to go get one for you? Options are: clangd. Sure, said I, and it just went and installed it and off I went. Granted, you'll also need company-mode and stuff, yes. And to get an IDE like experience... treemacs, projectile, etc. etc. Yes, it's an acquired taste. But it's not like it's obsolete. It's better and more active than it's ever been. And I've been using Emacs (mostly casually) since 1992.
- dleslie 3y ago
  First you have to know that lsp-mode exists. VSCode just detects what to do from the file. About projectile: Emacs ships with project.el and that does 90% of what projectile can do.
  - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
    I'm sorry maybe this has improved in the two years since I tried but the last time I tried to set up VSCode to even approach the capabilities of CLion (the tool I used most at the time) it required a whole bunch of configuration, and stuff that felt more brittle and confusing than the emacs setup I have now. In particular, no, it did not do all the LSP stuff out of the box, and didn't do basic refactorings out of the box either. Maybe it does so for other languages? Or maybe they've fixed the UX? But I recall having to install at least two or three plugins. And along the way found some that fought with each other.
    - dleslie 3y ago
      I have never used VSCode for C/C++, only Emacs and Visual Studio, so I can't comment on how it compares to CLion. VSCode and C#, however, is something I prefer to Visual Studio or even Rider.
- tmtvl 3y ago
hollerith 3y ago
I've also been using Emacs for 3 decades. Although I could probably be happy with vscode for coding, neither vscode nor any other app I am aware of is a satisfactory substitute for Emacs as a personal information manager (PIM) because neither vscode nor any other app can be modified easily enough. (Apparently, I care whether my PIM supports my personal way of working more than I care whether my code editor or IDE does.) Maybe if I were a professional web developer, I would be able to modify vscode in the ways I feel it needs to be modified to support my personal style after a reasonable investment in learning vscode internals, but that is manifestly not actually the case. BTW, I don't use and don't like org mode.