6 ms·

How is it selfish to not have kids? Selfishness implies another party; if the kid doesn’t even exist, what is selfish?

meowkit 3y ago
It can be construed either way. If you want kids, its selfish to bring the other party into existence. Life isn't all great, and you don't have a choice in whether or not you're born. If you don't want kids, its selfish because you are not supporting the society (other party) that supports your existence. If we don't have kids above the replacement rate, society doesn't continue. If you are fine with that great, but its hypocritical if you plan to continue to benefit from society in your own life.
- maxdoop 3y ago
  What of the people that have children but those children do not contribute in any meaningful way to society? Is the implication here that every child born must somehow be a net-positive to society? I see what you're saying about the replacement rate, but I don't see how, on a smaller scale, someone choosing to not have children is a selfish act within the context of a society that is not yet below "replacement" level.
aantix 3y ago
There’s literally thousands of generations prior that have made someone’s life possible. And then they wash their hands of the matter and say “nope, I’m not giving anyone else a chance at life. I’ll enjoy mine but it ends here”. That is selfishness.
- defrost 3y ago
  And yet there are more people alive now than there has ever been. Plenty of chances for a good life out there, more than ever. What is this bizarre obsession some have with endless growth? Why is it that having more and more people is so " essential"? How many billions are enough to stabilise at?
- kalleboo 3y ago
  What I hear from millennials is "life is suffering, our future is doomed (global warming, mass extinction, insane politics, increasing loneliness), why would I force some kid to have to grow up in this shit world just for my own fulfillment?"
  - ekianjo 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - swells34 3y ago
      You mean, they've refused the delusion that previous generations utilized to do horrible damage to our planet and long term way of life?
  - lupusreal 3y ago
    Media has them mind broke. The material conditions climate change / etc will inflict on them are nothing compared to the material conditions our ancestors endured before the creation of modern technology. "Boo hoo, the weather is shitty and some people are moving around because of it" he says, as he doesn't have to worry about Bubonic Plague or Genghis Khan.
    - ben_w 3y ago
      I wish people didn't mind people moving around, but (a) the UK gets worried about mere tens of thousands, and (b) "some people" in the case of climate-change induced changes to farming output would, with current economics, be "about three times the total population of Earth when the Black Death started".
  - aantix 3y ago
    Which is crazy. Because no one had a life harder than the previous generations. The amount of technological progress in the past decade is staggering. So many infrastructure issues are now just automated, that we don’t have to think about. It’s a great time to be alive. And a great time to give someone else that opportunity to experience it too.
- maxdoop 3y ago
  "I'm not giving anyone else a chance" -- there is no "anyone else". There is nothing being robbed, as there is no other party that literally exists in the universe.
conductr 3y ago
I'll speak as someone that waited until almost 40 to have kids and who feels, in hindsight, I was being completely selfish. I prioritized my career, my travel, my sleeping in, my social life, my leisure, etc. As soon as you become a parent, you realize you shorted yourself and your kid shared time on earth together. I also just don't have the energy or physical ability to play like I would have at a younger age. It's not something you can really grapple with or consider the magnitude of as a childless person purposely avoiding/delaying it. I don't think it's necessarily intentionally selfish in the moment, as you're living it, but later sometimes you get to reflect back and see your decisions as what they really where with the clarity of hindsight and you'll understand what you really did. It's a weird thing that happens and I think part of the whole "wisdom with age" thing. I think I was just being selfish. All the travel and me stuff I did in my 20s-30s is not really very important, my identity as a parent to the humans I created is my identity now, It's the only part of my identity I really care very much about. Sure I still have hobbies and travel and stuff but it's on an entirely different plane of importance.
- europeanNyan 3y ago
  What if someone is not waiting on anything and just doesn't want to have kids out of any number of reasons? It's alright if you have regrets, but I don't see it as selfish if you never intended to have kids in the first place.
  - ekianjo 3y ago
    which reasons exactly?
    - europeanNyan 3y ago
      Off the top of my head: not being able to biologically, thinking that they are not able to provide worthy living conditions for the children, abuse in childhood and being afraid of exhibiting the same behaviour, having sick parents/siblings who need a lot of care leaving no time for children, not wanting to increase the burden on the planet... or just plain having the freedom of choice.

It can be construed either way. If you want kids, its selfish to bring the other party into existence. Life isn't all great, and you don't have a choice in whether or not you're born. If you don't want kids, its selfish because you are not supporting the society (other party) that supports your existence. If we don't have kids above the replacement rate, society doesn't continue. If you are fine with that great, but its hypocritical if you plan to continue to benefit from society in your own life.

maxdoop 3y ago
What of the people that have children but those children do not contribute in any meaningful way to society? Is the implication here that every child born must somehow be a net-positive to society? I see what you're saying about the replacement rate, but I don't see how, on a smaller scale, someone choosing to not have children is a selfish act within the context of a society that is not yet below "replacement" level.

aantix 3y ago

There’s literally thousands of generations prior that have made someone’s life possible. And then they wash their hands of the matter and say “nope, I’m not giving anyone else a chance at life. I’ll enjoy mine but it ends here”. That is selfishness.

defrost 3y ago
And yet there are more people alive now than there has ever been. Plenty of chances for a good life out there, more than ever. What is this bizarre obsession some have with endless growth? Why is it that having more and more people is so " essential"? How many billions are enough to stabilise at?
kalleboo 3y ago
What I hear from millennials is "life is suffering, our future is doomed (global warming, mass extinction, insane politics, increasing loneliness), why would I force some kid to have to grow up in this shit world just for my own fulfillment?"
- ekianjo 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - swells34 3y ago
    You mean, they've refused the delusion that previous generations utilized to do horrible damage to our planet and long term way of life?
- lupusreal 3y ago
  Media has them mind broke. The material conditions climate change / etc will inflict on them are nothing compared to the material conditions our ancestors endured before the creation of modern technology. "Boo hoo, the weather is shitty and some people are moving around because of it" he says, as he doesn't have to worry about Bubonic Plague or Genghis Khan.
  - ben_w 3y ago
    I wish people didn't mind people moving around, but (a) the UK gets worried about mere tens of thousands, and (b) "some people" in the case of climate-change induced changes to farming output would, with current economics, be "about three times the total population of Earth when the Black Death started".
- aantix 3y ago
  Which is crazy. Because no one had a life harder than the previous generations. The amount of technological progress in the past decade is staggering. So many infrastructure issues are now just automated, that we don’t have to think about. It’s a great time to be alive. And a great time to give someone else that opportunity to experience it too.
maxdoop 3y ago
"I'm not giving anyone else a chance" -- there is no "anyone else". There is nothing being robbed, as there is no other party that literally exists in the universe.

conductr 3y ago

I'll speak as someone that waited until almost 40 to have kids and who feels, in hindsight, I was being completely selfish. I prioritized my career, my travel, my sleeping in, my social life, my leisure, etc. As soon as you become a parent, you realize you shorted yourself and your kid shared time on earth together. I also just don't have the energy or physical ability to play like I would have at a younger age. It's not something you can really grapple with or consider the magnitude of as a childless person purposely avoiding/delaying it. I don't think it's necessarily intentionally selfish in the moment, as you're living it, but later sometimes you get to reflect back and see your decisions as what they really where with the clarity of hindsight and you'll understand what you really did. It's a weird thing that happens and I think part of the whole "wisdom with age" thing. I think I was just being selfish. All the travel and me stuff I did in my 20s-30s is not really very important, my identity as a parent to the humans I created is my identity now, It's the only part of my identity I really care very much about. Sure I still have hobbies and travel and stuff but it's on an entirely different plane of importance.

europeanNyan 3y ago
What if someone is not waiting on anything and just doesn't want to have kids out of any number of reasons? It's alright if you have regrets, but I don't see it as selfish if you never intended to have kids in the first place.
- ekianjo 3y ago
  which reasons exactly?
  - europeanNyan 3y ago
    Off the top of my head: not being able to biologically, thinking that they are not able to provide worthy living conditions for the children, abuse in childhood and being afraid of exhibiting the same behaviour, having sick parents/siblings who need a lot of care leaving no time for children, not wanting to increase the burden on the planet... or just plain having the freedom of choice.