9 ms·

Deutsche Bahn is looking for Win 3.11 admin

61 points by mngnt 3y ago

lars_francke 3y ago
Previous discussions: - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39168469 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39168469 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39160956 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39160956
- nwellnhof 3y ago
  And it's not Deutsche Bahn but Siemens Mobility: https://www.heise.de/news/Deutsche-Bahn-sucht-Admin-fuer-Windows-3-11-for-Workgroups-9611543.html https://www.heise.de/news/Deutsche-Bahn-sucht-Admin-fuer-Win... (in German)
  - turing_complete 3y ago
    The article states it's either Deutsche Bahn or Siemens.
lqet 3y ago
After 30 years or privatization, Deutsche Bahn might be broken beyond repair. > "Deutsche Bahn is unable to cope with the simplest tasks of daily rail operations,” says a senior European railway official [0] In this case, however, I think they are doing the right thing in keeping software that has been working reliably for over 30 years. [0] https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/deutsche-bahn-streckensanierungen-bringen-nicht-den-erwuenschten-erfolg-a-a3a8f5f5-6bde-4ad1-b712-f666197c4b72 https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/deutsche-bahn-str...
- consp 3y ago
  > After 30 years or privatization, Deutsche Bahn might be broken beyond repair. Well, it's cheaper than state run. And that comes at a cost.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - zilti 3y ago
    It's still state-run, and 90% of the reason why Deutsche Bahn AG is in such a sorry state is the German government. Want to see privatization done right? Look no further than Germany's southern neighbour.
    - lobochrome 3y ago
      SBB isn't privatized. It's 100% state owned.
      - zilti 3y ago
        ...just like Deutsche Bahn.
    - jamil7 3y ago
      It's state-owned (the federal government is the majority shareholder) but it's not really state-run as far as I understand. It has a lot of autonomy and is responsible for its own failures in my opinion.
    - inglor_cz 3y ago
      In Czechia, the track (much like the highways) is managed by a state corporation, while the trains themselves are partly state-owned, partly private. From my 25 years of commuting experience, the results are decidedly mixed: * the track-managing state corporation, Správa železnic, is a shitshow that causes a lot of unnecessary delays by just ignoring needs of passengers and cargo companies alike; true bureaucrats, * the highway-managing state corporation, Ředitelství silnic a dálnic, is very well managed by the latest director (Mátl) and really kicked off many projects in last years, which is notable in a very NIMBY-friendly country like Czechia, * the state-owned railway company, České dráhy, used to be terrible, but competition forced it into providing quite decent services within last 10 years or so. * the two main private competitors, Leo Express and Regiojet, are now visibly cash-strapped (esp. Regiojet), so the overall level of service has stagnated for several years. High costs of traction electricity don't help either. As of today, there isn't really a qualitative difference between boarding state-owned or privately-owned trains.
- wslh 3y ago
  It is a good recommendation to follow the "if it works don't touch it" motto, but it is also true that they have time and resources (you don't need that much!) to port this to a modern platform and perform all the QA activities that you need to be 99% sure everything works as expected. Through one of my companies we were/are involved in many of these efforts (e.g. application virtualization) and the use of legacy software [1]. Win 3.11 is a relatively easy target. Much much easier than other projects we dealt with. [1] https://blog.nektra.com/2014/02/12/nektra-escalation-support-for-symantec-workspace-virtualization-swv/ https://blog.nektra.com/2014/02/12/nektra-escalation-support...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - incrudible 3y ago
    The problem with modern platforms is that they remove many constraints that kept complexity at bay. Combined with a large bureaucratic organization that is state owned and financed, Parkinson's law is going to hit very hard.
- miyuru 3y ago
  Are there any trains that runs on k8s?
  - zyx321 3y ago
    Nope, they're all running on Rails.
    - kitd 3y ago
      Don't tell us, you're here all week?
      - zyx321 3y ago
        What can I say, they walked right into that one...
  - Traubenfuchs 3y ago
    Hi, I was deeply involved in DBs Vendo project which completely replaced/renewed most of it's sales / customer-facing related backends and we were using Open Shift. 5/6 years ago... Everything could have changed again by now.
jimmyed 3y ago
[dead]
ant6n 3y ago
This article is just copy-pasted (stolen) from this blog entry, which also contains more of the original posting: https://stadt-bremerhaven.de/bahn-administrator-fuer-windows-3-11-gesucht/ https://stadt-bremerhaven.de/bahn-administrator-fuer-windows...
sho_hn 3y ago
A lone position, or do they have a Workgroup?
- smitty1e 3y ago
  "I see what you did there," said Bob.
  - sho_hn 3y ago
    Hi Bob! It's Rover.
    - smitty1e 3y ago
      "Don't get Clippy with me, Rover," said Bob.
PeterStuer 3y ago
This is probably for working on Siemens' Sibas 32 family of products. This ia a large product range for their rail portfolio. You're not going to change the break control driver system on a high speed train unless absolutely required. The oldest OS that qualifies for interacting with these systems seems to be Windows 3.11, so it seems knowledge of such a system would be part of the requirements of a field engineer, just like knowledge of first aid is a requirement even though in theory you are only going to touch a keyboard, but interfacing with high-power electrical systems can have serious physical consequences. For a taste you can read through https://www.scribd.com/document/442402647/5A-Monitor-prog-SiBAS https://www.scribd.com/document/442402647/5A-Monitor-prog-Si...
- mschuster91 3y ago
  > The oldest OS that qualifies for interacting with these systems seems to be Windows 3.11, so it seems knowledge of such a system would be part of the requirements of a field engineer Working with it, yes. Developing for it? Completely different game, as you'll have almost zero chance to use anything modern, and that includes the tooling.
  - flohofwoe 3y ago
    People are building Amiga applications as well as games and scene demos for much older 8-bit home computers with modern development tools. Even if Windows 3.1 doesn't quite have the same enthusiast following I would expect that it's possible with a bit of reverse engineering and tinkering (especially since Win3.1 is still quite small and simple). TL;DR: I wouldn't be surprised if it's harder to support Win8 today than Win3.1 ;)
    - mschuster91 3y ago
      > People are building Amiga applications as well as games and scene demos for much older 8-bit home computers with modern development tools. Yeah but these things are built from scratch. Your average ages-old Borland or whatever suite with its build script? That's a lot of work to integrate with a modern IDE, and honestly I wouldn't risk it in that space either due to the potential for things to go horribly sideways. So you need at least the OS and build tooling combination that was used for the last certified build, and if certification requirements are really strict you can't do that in a VM but have to develop on age-appropriate hardware as well.
jll29 3y ago
shame!

61 points by mngnt 3y ago

Previous discussions: - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39168469 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39168469 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39160956 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39160956

nwellnhof 3y ago
And it's not Deutsche Bahn but Siemens Mobility: https://www.heise.de/news/Deutsche-Bahn-sucht-Admin-fuer-Windows-3-11-for-Workgroups-9611543.html https://www.heise.de/news/Deutsche-Bahn-sucht-Admin-fuer-Win... (in German)
- turing_complete 3y ago
  The article states it's either Deutsche Bahn or Siemens.

lqet 3y ago

After 30 years or privatization, Deutsche Bahn might be broken beyond repair. > "Deutsche Bahn is unable to cope with the simplest tasks of daily rail operations,” says a senior European railway official [0] In this case, however, I think they are doing the right thing in keeping software that has been working reliably for over 30 years. [0] https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/deutsche-bahn-streckensanierungen-bringen-nicht-den-erwuenschten-erfolg-a-a3a8f5f5-6bde-4ad1-b712-f666197c4b72 https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/deutsche-bahn-str...

consp 3y ago
> After 30 years or privatization, Deutsche Bahn might be broken beyond repair. Well, it's cheaper than state run. And that comes at a cost.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- zilti 3y ago
  It's still state-run, and 90% of the reason why Deutsche Bahn AG is in such a sorry state is the German government. Want to see privatization done right? Look no further than Germany's southern neighbour.
  - lobochrome 3y ago
    SBB isn't privatized. It's 100% state owned.
    - zilti 3y ago
      ...just like Deutsche Bahn.
  - jamil7 3y ago
    It's state-owned (the federal government is the majority shareholder) but it's not really state-run as far as I understand. It has a lot of autonomy and is responsible for its own failures in my opinion.
  - inglor_cz 3y ago
    In Czechia, the track (much like the highways) is managed by a state corporation, while the trains themselves are partly state-owned, partly private. From my 25 years of commuting experience, the results are decidedly mixed: * the track-managing state corporation, Správa železnic, is a shitshow that causes a lot of unnecessary delays by just ignoring needs of passengers and cargo companies alike; true bureaucrats, * the highway-managing state corporation, Ředitelství silnic a dálnic, is very well managed by the latest director (Mátl) and really kicked off many projects in last years, which is notable in a very NIMBY-friendly country like Czechia, * the state-owned railway company, České dráhy, used to be terrible, but competition forced it into providing quite decent services within last 10 years or so. * the two main private competitors, Leo Express and Regiojet, are now visibly cash-strapped (esp. Regiojet), so the overall level of service has stagnated for several years. High costs of traction electricity don't help either. As of today, there isn't really a qualitative difference between boarding state-owned or privately-owned trains.
wslh 3y ago
It is a good recommendation to follow the "if it works don't touch it" motto, but it is also true that they have time and resources (you don't need that much!) to port this to a modern platform and perform all the QA activities that you need to be 99% sure everything works as expected. Through one of my companies we were/are involved in many of these efforts (e.g. application virtualization) and the use of legacy software [1]. Win 3.11 is a relatively easy target. Much much easier than other projects we dealt with. [1] https://blog.nektra.com/2014/02/12/nektra-escalation-support-for-symantec-workspace-virtualization-swv/ https://blog.nektra.com/2014/02/12/nektra-escalation-support...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- incrudible 3y ago
  The problem with modern platforms is that they remove many constraints that kept complexity at bay. Combined with a large bureaucratic organization that is state owned and financed, Parkinson's law is going to hit very hard.
miyuru 3y ago
Are there any trains that runs on k8s?
- zyx321 3y ago
  Nope, they're all running on Rails.
  - kitd 3y ago
    Don't tell us, you're here all week?
    - zyx321 3y ago
      What can I say, they walked right into that one...
- Traubenfuchs 3y ago
  Hi, I was deeply involved in DBs Vendo project which completely replaced/renewed most of it's sales / customer-facing related backends and we were using Open Shift. 5/6 years ago... Everything could have changed again by now.

jimmyed 3y ago

[dead]

ant6n 3y ago

This article is just copy-pasted (stolen) from this blog entry, which also contains more of the original posting: https://stadt-bremerhaven.de/bahn-administrator-fuer-windows-3-11-gesucht/ https://stadt-bremerhaven.de/bahn-administrator-fuer-windows...

sho_hn 3y ago

A lone position, or do they have a Workgroup?

smitty1e 3y ago
"I see what you did there," said Bob.
- sho_hn 3y ago
  Hi Bob! It's Rover.
  - smitty1e 3y ago
    "Don't get Clippy with me, Rover," said Bob.

PeterStuer 3y ago

This is probably for working on Siemens' Sibas 32 family of products. This ia a large product range for their rail portfolio. You're not going to change the break control driver system on a high speed train unless absolutely required. The oldest OS that qualifies for interacting with these systems seems to be Windows 3.11, so it seems knowledge of such a system would be part of the requirements of a field engineer, just like knowledge of first aid is a requirement even though in theory you are only going to touch a keyboard, but interfacing with high-power electrical systems can have serious physical consequences. For a taste you can read through https://www.scribd.com/document/442402647/5A-Monitor-prog-SiBAS https://www.scribd.com/document/442402647/5A-Monitor-prog-Si...

mschuster91 3y ago
> The oldest OS that qualifies for interacting with these systems seems to be Windows 3.11, so it seems knowledge of such a system would be part of the requirements of a field engineer Working with it, yes. Developing for it? Completely different game, as you'll have almost zero chance to use anything modern, and that includes the tooling.
- flohofwoe 3y ago
  People are building Amiga applications as well as games and scene demos for much older 8-bit home computers with modern development tools. Even if Windows 3.1 doesn't quite have the same enthusiast following I would expect that it's possible with a bit of reverse engineering and tinkering (especially since Win3.1 is still quite small and simple). TL;DR: I wouldn't be surprised if it's harder to support Win8 today than Win3.1 ;)
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    > People are building Amiga applications as well as games and scene demos for much older 8-bit home computers with modern development tools. Yeah but these things are built from scratch. Your average ages-old Borland or whatever suite with its build script? That's a lot of work to integrate with a modern IDE, and honestly I wouldn't risk it in that space either due to the potential for things to go horribly sideways. So you need at least the OS and build tooling combination that was used for the last certified build, and if certification requirements are really strict you can't do that in a VM but have to develop on age-appropriate hardware as well.

jll29 3y ago

shame!