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TL;DR: People want useful or fun, not "VR" > If they can't sell VR, I don't think anyone can sell VR Imagine having as many monitors as you need. Anywhere. Re

TL;DR: People want useful or fun, not "VR" > If they can't sell VR, I don't think anyone can sell VR Imagine having as many monitors as you need. Anywhere. Rearrange them whenever and however, even on airplanes! It all weighs under 1 pound (0.45 kg). How much would you pay? I'd pay at least $600. > where we'll know what people want to use it for/if it's capable of living in the mainstream A cheaper, better multi-monitor replacement would be very useful. It might even be fun in some cases, but it's still mostly a productivity tool. Unfortunately, short-term incentives seem to limit funding to projects with potential for: 1. Platform lock-in (Apple Vision, Oculus) 2. Ecosystem extension (Apple Vision, Valve Index) > or if it's forever going to live as a niche product Is having 2+ monitors an obscure niche? An overwhelming number of offices and other workspaces disagree.

ekianjo 3y ago
if VR is about having virtual monitors then thats not a Very enticing proposition
- sjwhevvvvvsj 3y ago
  With the added benefit of neck strain!
  - pushfoo 3y ago
    We already have neck strain with multi-monitor setups and bad office ergonomics. I know it's not likely in the nearest future, but I'm still hopeful we might be less sore if headsets become both light and common enough.
    - vonjuice 3y ago
      > We already have neck strain with multi-monitor setups and bad office ergonomics. And this would make it even worse.
      - EForEndeavour 3y ago
        Why? Wouldn't you be able to position virtual displays however you like, and view them from many more body positions than is possible with physical displays?
        pushfoo 3y ago
        I think GP's taking the pessimistic view that the VR headset will be forced on the user for cost-cutting reasons. It's a real worry, but I was taking the optimistic view where I can choose where and how I set up my workspace enough to be comfortable.
        vonjuice 3y ago
        What's GP?
        pushfoo 3y ago
        Grandparent, as in the grandparent post.
        vonjuice 3y ago
        But why would you do that? Why would you go through the effort to move around? The problem with physical displays isn't that you can't move them around, it's that there's no reason to. It's like a chair, sitting for too long is terrible for your body. Chairs don't literally limit you from getting up, but there's just no immediate reason to get up, do some stretching. It would be the same except you're adding annoying glass and plastic attached to your face.
        pushfoo 3y ago
        > Why would you go through the effort to move around? If a headset can be light enough, it can be a tool for AR documentation overlays. It's like taping a manual up next to the thing you're working on. For example, engine components. I've seen airline mechanics consulting laptops as they work on engines. I didn't get a close enough look to be sure, but it seemed like it was a combination of manuals and running diagnostics. > it's that there's no reason to. Some monitors come with swivel mounts to support both horizontal and vertical modes. It's common enough that I think it's worth exploring. > except you're adding annoying glass and plastic attached to your face. This is absolutely true. Getting headsets down toward the same weight range as regular glasses is probably a major hurdle for use outside industrial or piloting applications and into the office.
- pushfoo 3y ago
  It's about being able to display information anywhere. Many work tasks consist of using reference material to do something else. This isn't limited to the office. > thats not a Very enticing proposition Consider the following use cases: * A surgical team consulting a 3D CT scan as they remove the tumor threatening to kill you or someone you love * A firefighter who can overlay a building's plans over thick smoke * A rescue helicopter pilot who can see LIDAR and IR data as needed All of these are literally life-saving. However, office uses such as replacing multi-monitor desks are far more pleasant to encounter.
  - wilsonnb3 3y ago
    I feel like these examples, and most examples of what AR is good for, are largely based on what looks cool in movies rather than what is actually more effective than looking at a screen or having someone speaking in your ear. AR definitely has real industrial uses but 90% of the examples people can think of are not better or are worse than current methods.
    - XorNot 3y ago
      Monitors anywhere though is useful, the issue is that the technology to it isn't there. The 4K monitor I have sitting about 45cm from my face needs a 16K monitor sitting 5cm from my eyeballs to be adequately emulated. The problem is "virtual" monitors in VR aren't high enough FOV or resolution to be as useful as real monitors.
    - pushfoo 3y ago
      TL;DR: I agree and favor the "boring" uses, but chose emotional examples since GP sounded disappointed by those I intentionally chose heroic examples because GP's viewpoint is understandable. Not everyone is as excited by window management and good UI as I am. OP's article touched on attention management through UI a little bit, but I think that concern isn't given enough attention. Using the most heroic scenarios possible helps drive the point home without getting grim, but I will now. To be blunt, it's a historical fact that bad UI kills people [1][2]. > AR definitely has real industrial uses but 90% of the examples people can think of are not better or are worse than current methods. I agree completely. My main concern is pinning manuals or reference sheets next to my work, even if paper fallback is still crucial. That's pretty much the use case for multi-monitor anyway. The surgical example is the same thing: CT scans are used to tell the surgeons where it's ok to cut. However, there's an extra benefit here: reducing the need for a physical 3D print of the skull reduces infection risk. It's one less thing to moved into and out of the OR. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25 2. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/11/uss-mccain-collision-ultimately-caused-by-ui-confusion/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/11/uss-m...

ekianjo 3y ago

if VR is about having virtual monitors then thats not a Very enticing proposition

sjwhevvvvvsj 3y ago
With the added benefit of neck strain!
- pushfoo 3y ago
  We already have neck strain with multi-monitor setups and bad office ergonomics. I know it's not likely in the nearest future, but I'm still hopeful we might be less sore if headsets become both light and common enough.
  - vonjuice 3y ago
    > We already have neck strain with multi-monitor setups and bad office ergonomics. And this would make it even worse.
    - EForEndeavour 3y ago
      Why? Wouldn't you be able to position virtual displays however you like, and view them from many more body positions than is possible with physical displays?
      - pushfoo 3y ago
        I think GP's taking the pessimistic view that the VR headset will be forced on the user for cost-cutting reasons. It's a real worry, but I was taking the optimistic view where I can choose where and how I set up my workspace enough to be comfortable.
        vonjuice 3y ago
        What's GP?
        pushfoo 3y ago
        Grandparent, as in the grandparent post.
      - vonjuice 3y ago
        But why would you do that? Why would you go through the effort to move around? The problem with physical displays isn't that you can't move them around, it's that there's no reason to. It's like a chair, sitting for too long is terrible for your body. Chairs don't literally limit you from getting up, but there's just no immediate reason to get up, do some stretching. It would be the same except you're adding annoying glass and plastic attached to your face.
        pushfoo 3y ago
        > Why would you go through the effort to move around? If a headset can be light enough, it can be a tool for AR documentation overlays. It's like taping a manual up next to the thing you're working on. For example, engine components. I've seen airline mechanics consulting laptops as they work on engines. I didn't get a close enough look to be sure, but it seemed like it was a combination of manuals and running diagnostics. > it's that there's no reason to. Some monitors come with swivel mounts to support both horizontal and vertical modes. It's common enough that I think it's worth exploring. > except you're adding annoying glass and plastic attached to your face. This is absolutely true. Getting headsets down toward the same weight range as regular glasses is probably a major hurdle for use outside industrial or piloting applications and into the office.
pushfoo 3y ago
It's about being able to display information anywhere. Many work tasks consist of using reference material to do something else. This isn't limited to the office. > thats not a Very enticing proposition Consider the following use cases: * A surgical team consulting a 3D CT scan as they remove the tumor threatening to kill you or someone you love * A firefighter who can overlay a building's plans over thick smoke * A rescue helicopter pilot who can see LIDAR and IR data as needed All of these are literally life-saving. However, office uses such as replacing multi-monitor desks are far more pleasant to encounter.
- wilsonnb3 3y ago
  I feel like these examples, and most examples of what AR is good for, are largely based on what looks cool in movies rather than what is actually more effective than looking at a screen or having someone speaking in your ear. AR definitely has real industrial uses but 90% of the examples people can think of are not better or are worse than current methods.
  - XorNot 3y ago
    Monitors anywhere though is useful, the issue is that the technology to it isn't there. The 4K monitor I have sitting about 45cm from my face needs a 16K monitor sitting 5cm from my eyeballs to be adequately emulated. The problem is "virtual" monitors in VR aren't high enough FOV or resolution to be as useful as real monitors.
  - pushfoo 3y ago
    TL;DR: I agree and favor the "boring" uses, but chose emotional examples since GP sounded disappointed by those I intentionally chose heroic examples because GP's viewpoint is understandable. Not everyone is as excited by window management and good UI as I am. OP's article touched on attention management through UI a little bit, but I think that concern isn't given enough attention. Using the most heroic scenarios possible helps drive the point home without getting grim, but I will now. To be blunt, it's a historical fact that bad UI kills people [1][2]. > AR definitely has real industrial uses but 90% of the examples people can think of are not better or are worse than current methods. I agree completely. My main concern is pinning manuals or reference sheets next to my work, even if paper fallback is still crucial. That's pretty much the use case for multi-monitor anyway. The surgical example is the same thing: CT scans are used to tell the surgeons where it's ok to cut. However, there's an extra benefit here: reducing the need for a physical 3D print of the skull reduces infection risk. It's one less thing to moved into and out of the OR. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25 2. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/11/uss-mccain-collision-ultimately-caused-by-ui-confusion/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/11/uss-m...