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I think this is like a modern example of the Apple Newton in the sense it's impressive, has uses, but it too soon to be widely adopted. I think this device wil

I think this is like a modern example of the Apple Newton in the sense it's impressive, has uses, but it too soon to be widely adopted. I think this device will flounder, early adopters will struggle to make full use of it because of all the compromises. Take it on the plane? Why? It will run out of power in 1-2 hrs (if you remembered the full charge before you board). Lugging all that bulk just for a movie on the plane while you look like a black mirror drone. Then there is TV, it's great if you live by yourself, but what couple has $7k to drop so they can watch TV together. For ~2hrs. Office work? No thanks, I can't wear that all day and actually be productive. It's an amazing accomplishment, but who is it for? The ~200k wealthy people who mostly live by themselves isn't going to fulfill an AR revolution for Apple. I wonder what Jobs would have done.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
When all plane seats seem to have power these days, is the battery in a plane really a limitation? Can’t it charge while being used?
- zerbinxx 3y ago
  Doesn’t it have some weird and Very Apple design flaw where it’s hard to charge and use at the same time?
  - gr__or 3y ago
    The battery is external, i.e. already next to you anyway, so plugging in power is rather simple. You could also have multiple batteries with you, though I don't know the price of an additional battery.
    - jsheard 3y ago
      It's $200 for an extra battery, all of the accessories have a steep early adopter tax. Besides, has anyone confirmed whether or not the AVP has an internal backup battery so you can hotswap the external battery without rebooting it?
      - nonfamous 3y ago
        According to the linked review, hot-swapping is not possible - disconnecting the battery powers down the device.
        jsheard 3y ago
        In that case if you want to use it for many hours without access to wall power you're better off buying a generic USB power bank and plugging that into the Apple battery. Very elegant.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    I don’t know, which is why I’m asking. I can see it not charging as fast as it’s being used.
    - monkeynotes 3y ago
      It's basically a laptop on your head, so a meaty 60w charger could be needed to power and charge it.
      - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        Then I guess that is fine, since airlines are typically providing 75 watts per seat.
        mrguyorama 3y ago
        A couple watts of heat dissipating into your face and head the entire flight is.... Not optimal. Heat is a rather important issue for VR hardware. You can't really positively ventilate the actual part that goes over your face, or else you dry out your eyes and that's pretty unenjoyable.
        seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        The battery is not located near your face, it’s lower on your waste. I’ve never experienced heat up on my quest 2, and I’m using it for mostly sweaty things. I just can’t see Apple making something that gets hotter than a quest.
        monkeynotes 3y ago
        This is news to me, I've always had low amp USB-A slow chargers in economy. Those old cigarette outlets can deliver 75 watt, but no idea about the amperage. I am sure USB-C with PD will be available at some point, but it's not a majority of economy today AFAIK
  - bearjaws 3y ago
    cries in magic mouse
  - swozey 3y ago
    That'd be fitting. Maybe the charging port is inside of it right between your eyes so you have to charge it like their old mouse you had to flip over dead.
    - Toutouxc 3y ago
      > charge it like their old mouse you had to flip over dead That's not "their old mouse", it's the current mouse. We're still on the 2015 design with the charging port at the bottom. (I have one and I don't mind/care, I just chuckle once a month when I remember to charge it)
      - swozey 3y ago
        Oh wow I didn't know they even still sold that. If you're still on an actual 2015 that's an impressive mouse life. I've got a 2-3 year old Logitech MX3 (I own 4-5 MXs) and this one is starting to act up bad.
        Toutouxc 3y ago
        Mine is around 4 years old, but it's the 2015 design (Magic Mouse 2nd gen).
  - naravara 3y ago
    No. When it's plugged in it just passes the power through. The annoying Apple limitation is that you can't hot-swap the battery.
- monkeynotes 3y ago
  Those outlets are usually low amp, slow charge. I mean a majority are still USB-A, and now you have to take an adapter with you. The whole thing is ludacris for a majority of people, they have other priorities for what they pack and how the hassle they are willing to accept for a movie. Parents are a non-starter, AVP is a selfish device for disappearing into your own world, parents have kids to keep an eye on. I personally would not want to be completely closed off from the cabin, first it's fucked up for the cabin crew to interact with, second I am now partially blind AND deaf to my surroundings. FOV is limited, and I doubt those cameras are very capable at low light.
coffeebeqn 3y ago
The plane thing is funny. I can’t imagine anyone actually using VR in economy. At best you’ll annoy people next to you and the flight attendants if they need you to move or respond. At worst you’ll hit your head on something or whack someone with the controllers
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  I can see it being used on a long haul in economy after dinner service and before breakfast. Most of that doesn’t really apply, except for the occasional bathroom run.
  - monkeynotes 3y ago
    And that's my point, it's such a tiny niche usage window, why bother to bring it?
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      If you have to take a lot of trans Pacifics in economy, you get desperate quickly. This is only the price of one discounted business class ticket.
- whynotminot 3y ago
  There's a lot to question about AVP, but this doesn't make sense. What are you hitting your head on sitting in your seat on an airplane? If you've got the aisle seat and someone needs to move, they do the same thing they do when you're wearing your noise canceling headphone or taking a nap--tap your shoulder. It's not rocket science. The device has breakthrough--when someone comes near (eg a flight attendant), it breaks through the immersive VR and shows them to you. You can take off the headset at that point if you choose. Again there's a lot to question about how this headset will practically work for people, but this ain't it. In fact I'd argue airplanes are one of the use-cases for this device that makes the most sense. How many places do I want to completely disappear from my environment and pretend I'm somewhere else? A long haul flight is tops on that list.
pmontra 3y ago
> what couple has $7k to drop so they can watch TV together Together and alone at the same time. Eye contact and unhindered vision of the face of a partner are important things.
- LeafItAlone 3y ago
  There’s no requirement to wear them 24/7… You can get an awesome 2-3 hour immersive movie experience and still look at your partner after. A good cinema experience already envelopes me and makes me forget I’m surrounded by a hundred others.
dansalvato 3y ago
> I wonder what Jobs would have done. I think every "new paradigm" Apple product had similar growing pains. The Mac launched with only 128kb RAM, the iPhone lacked basic functionality and ditched physical keyboards, and the iPad was "just a big iPod". Also, in all cases, there was no software for them at launch. Every time, we seem to ask "What is this good for?" or "How will this ever be good when it has these fundamental limitations?" But then, a few years down, it's suddenly commonplace, even indispensable. I think that like the new paradigms before it, it's hard to imagine a clear future for this product. But they always seem to find their way after Apple gets them out the door. Not saying I'm convinced there will be a headset in every home, but I think the "spatial computing" paradigm is far more likely to find a path forward than it is to die.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

When all plane seats seem to have power these days, is the battery in a plane really a limitation? Can’t it charge while being used?

zerbinxx 3y ago
Doesn’t it have some weird and Very Apple design flaw where it’s hard to charge and use at the same time?
- gr__or 3y ago
  The battery is external, i.e. already next to you anyway, so plugging in power is rather simple. You could also have multiple batteries with you, though I don't know the price of an additional battery.
  - jsheard 3y ago
    It's $200 for an extra battery, all of the accessories have a steep early adopter tax. Besides, has anyone confirmed whether or not the AVP has an internal backup battery so you can hotswap the external battery without rebooting it?
    - nonfamous 3y ago
      According to the linked review, hot-swapping is not possible - disconnecting the battery powers down the device.
      - jsheard 3y ago
        In that case if you want to use it for many hours without access to wall power you're better off buying a generic USB power bank and plugging that into the Apple battery. Very elegant.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  I don’t know, which is why I’m asking. I can see it not charging as fast as it’s being used.
  - monkeynotes 3y ago
    It's basically a laptop on your head, so a meaty 60w charger could be needed to power and charge it.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      Then I guess that is fine, since airlines are typically providing 75 watts per seat.
      - mrguyorama 3y ago
        A couple watts of heat dissipating into your face and head the entire flight is.... Not optimal. Heat is a rather important issue for VR hardware. You can't really positively ventilate the actual part that goes over your face, or else you dry out your eyes and that's pretty unenjoyable.
        seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        The battery is not located near your face, it’s lower on your waste. I’ve never experienced heat up on my quest 2, and I’m using it for mostly sweaty things. I just can’t see Apple making something that gets hotter than a quest.
      - monkeynotes 3y ago
        This is news to me, I've always had low amp USB-A slow chargers in economy. Those old cigarette outlets can deliver 75 watt, but no idea about the amperage. I am sure USB-C with PD will be available at some point, but it's not a majority of economy today AFAIK
- bearjaws 3y ago
  cries in magic mouse
- swozey 3y ago
  That'd be fitting. Maybe the charging port is inside of it right between your eyes so you have to charge it like their old mouse you had to flip over dead.
  - Toutouxc 3y ago
    > charge it like their old mouse you had to flip over dead That's not "their old mouse", it's the current mouse. We're still on the 2015 design with the charging port at the bottom. (I have one and I don't mind/care, I just chuckle once a month when I remember to charge it)
    - swozey 3y ago
      Oh wow I didn't know they even still sold that. If you're still on an actual 2015 that's an impressive mouse life. I've got a 2-3 year old Logitech MX3 (I own 4-5 MXs) and this one is starting to act up bad.
      - Toutouxc 3y ago
        Mine is around 4 years old, but it's the 2015 design (Magic Mouse 2nd gen).
- naravara 3y ago
  No. When it's plugged in it just passes the power through. The annoying Apple limitation is that you can't hot-swap the battery.
monkeynotes 3y ago
Those outlets are usually low amp, slow charge. I mean a majority are still USB-A, and now you have to take an adapter with you. The whole thing is ludacris for a majority of people, they have other priorities for what they pack and how the hassle they are willing to accept for a movie. Parents are a non-starter, AVP is a selfish device for disappearing into your own world, parents have kids to keep an eye on. I personally would not want to be completely closed off from the cabin, first it's fucked up for the cabin crew to interact with, second I am now partially blind AND deaf to my surroundings. FOV is limited, and I doubt those cameras are very capable at low light.

coffeebeqn 3y ago

The plane thing is funny. I can’t imagine anyone actually using VR in economy. At best you’ll annoy people next to you and the flight attendants if they need you to move or respond. At worst you’ll hit your head on something or whack someone with the controllers

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
I can see it being used on a long haul in economy after dinner service and before breakfast. Most of that doesn’t really apply, except for the occasional bathroom run.
- monkeynotes 3y ago
  And that's my point, it's such a tiny niche usage window, why bother to bring it?
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    If you have to take a lot of trans Pacifics in economy, you get desperate quickly. This is only the price of one discounted business class ticket.
whynotminot 3y ago
There's a lot to question about AVP, but this doesn't make sense. What are you hitting your head on sitting in your seat on an airplane? If you've got the aisle seat and someone needs to move, they do the same thing they do when you're wearing your noise canceling headphone or taking a nap--tap your shoulder. It's not rocket science. The device has breakthrough--when someone comes near (eg a flight attendant), it breaks through the immersive VR and shows them to you. You can take off the headset at that point if you choose. Again there's a lot to question about how this headset will practically work for people, but this ain't it. In fact I'd argue airplanes are one of the use-cases for this device that makes the most sense. How many places do I want to completely disappear from my environment and pretend I'm somewhere else? A long haul flight is tops on that list.

pmontra 3y ago

> what couple has $7k to drop so they can watch TV together Together and alone at the same time. Eye contact and unhindered vision of the face of a partner are important things.

LeafItAlone 3y ago
There’s no requirement to wear them 24/7… You can get an awesome 2-3 hour immersive movie experience and still look at your partner after. A good cinema experience already envelopes me and makes me forget I’m surrounded by a hundred others.

dansalvato 3y ago

> I wonder what Jobs would have done. I think every "new paradigm" Apple product had similar growing pains. The Mac launched with only 128kb RAM, the iPhone lacked basic functionality and ditched physical keyboards, and the iPad was "just a big iPod". Also, in all cases, there was no software for them at launch. Every time, we seem to ask "What is this good for?" or "How will this ever be good when it has these fundamental limitations?" But then, a few years down, it's suddenly commonplace, even indispensable. I think that like the new paradigms before it, it's hard to imagine a clear future for this product. But they always seem to find their way after Apple gets them out the door. Not saying I'm convinced there will be a headset in every home, but I think the "spatial computing" paradigm is far more likely to find a path forward than it is to die.