10 ms·

Makes you wonder what comes after AI. What's the "higher order" after AI that exists today or that will exist in 10 years? I'd guess we will never understand th

Makes you wonder what comes after AI. What's the "higher order" after AI that exists today or that will exist in 10 years? I'd guess we will never understand that level of intelligence, unless AI augments our brains somehow.

eagerpace 3y ago
Perhaps they’ll keep creating smaller transistors and more powerful processors eventually landing on a soft tissue-based version powered by glucose.
- ben_w 3y ago
  Even back in 2017, transistors were already smaller[0] and faster[1] than biological synapses to the same ratio by which wolves are smaller and faster than the hills they roam around on. [0] Human synapse size / 2017-transistor size ≅ 1µm / 11nm ≅ wolf body length / a specific hill I was thinking of ≅ 1.6m / 145m [3] [1] synaptic pulse rate / transistor transition rate ≅ 200 Hz / 30 GHz [2] ≅ 2 cm/year / 25 km/day ≅ speed of continental drift / average daily range of a wolf as a speed [3] [2] transistors flip significantly faster than overall clock speed [3] https://kitsunesoftware.wordpress.com/2017/11/26/you-wont-believe-how-fast-transistors-are/ https://kitsunesoftware.wordpress.com/2017/11/26/you-wont-be...
idiotsecant 3y ago
You mean the second order toposophic level? https://www.orionsarm.com/eg-topic/492d6fafbef2a https://www.orionsarm.com/eg-topic/492d6fafbef2a Careful you might be going down a 14 hour rabbit hole.
digging 3y ago
> unless AI augments our brains somehow Frankly, the more I think about AI, the less sense it makes to me that biological, single-body humans have any place in the future. As soon as we can digitize our minds, why wouldn't people begin to do so? Bodies could be inhabited at will, and death will be a thing of the past as we're able to store backups. I'm sure some will refuse and be left behind, just as we have Amish communities today, with a similar level of influence on civilization. And in the case of digital people, I think it's likely they'll share in the intellectual advancements of AI, if such a distinction even exists.
- saalweachter 3y ago
  Once flying cars are as cheap and easy to own and operate as regular cars, why would anyone buy a non-flying car?
  - digging 3y ago
    I think you're going to need to explain your position a little better.
    - saalweachter 3y ago
      Upload, like flying cars, is a particular vision of a scifi future technology which may not come to pass. You're prognosticating a future "when X...", when that "when" is a very big "if".
- creer 3y ago
  Digitization is one direction but I think augmentation is perhaps a more likely one. Or a first one. Digitization can follow in a "Ship of Theseus" fashion. And augmentation branches then in AI as symbiont versus AI as desktop assistant.
  - digging 3y ago
    > Digitization is one direction but I think augmentation is perhaps a more likely one. Or a first one. First seems likely, but as a permanent alternative I don't know why a species would eschew lightspeed transportation and effortless immortality for the fragility and slowness of an organic body. It's possible there are good reasons, but I don't know of any.
    - creer 3y ago
      Digitization, upload, has always seemed to me an iffy goal. The brains' packaging doesn't seem very amenable to any of our current technologies, as far as being able to "read" it. And then once read emulating it seems just as difficult. Once uploaded comes the issue of getting computing time to run it (the economics and politics of prefering run time of X over run time of Y). And maintaining the computing platform. Certainly there are immense advantages to the digitized form - of course. By contrast, augmentation (which is what we already do) seems straightforward. And seems to fit current society "easily" (haha - or let's say it will be tough enough as a first stage.) So that from the point of view of a next epoch in life forms, AI fits more immediately in the struggle of AI as symbiont, AI as independent, or AI as desktop assistant.

eagerpace 3y ago

Perhaps they’ll keep creating smaller transistors and more powerful processors eventually landing on a soft tissue-based version powered by glucose.

ben_w 3y ago
Even back in 2017, transistors were already smaller[0] and faster[1] than biological synapses to the same ratio by which wolves are smaller and faster than the hills they roam around on. [0] Human synapse size / 2017-transistor size ≅ 1µm / 11nm ≅ wolf body length / a specific hill I was thinking of ≅ 1.6m / 145m [3] [1] synaptic pulse rate / transistor transition rate ≅ 200 Hz / 30 GHz [2] ≅ 2 cm/year / 25 km/day ≅ speed of continental drift / average daily range of a wolf as a speed [3] [2] transistors flip significantly faster than overall clock speed [3] https://kitsunesoftware.wordpress.com/2017/11/26/you-wont-believe-how-fast-transistors-are/ https://kitsunesoftware.wordpress.com/2017/11/26/you-wont-be...

idiotsecant 3y ago

You mean the second order toposophic level? https://www.orionsarm.com/eg-topic/492d6fafbef2a https://www.orionsarm.com/eg-topic/492d6fafbef2a Careful you might be going down a 14 hour rabbit hole.

digging 3y ago

> unless AI augments our brains somehow Frankly, the more I think about AI, the less sense it makes to me that biological, single-body humans have any place in the future. As soon as we can digitize our minds, why wouldn't people begin to do so? Bodies could be inhabited at will, and death will be a thing of the past as we're able to store backups. I'm sure some will refuse and be left behind, just as we have Amish communities today, with a similar level of influence on civilization. And in the case of digital people, I think it's likely they'll share in the intellectual advancements of AI, if such a distinction even exists.

saalweachter 3y ago
Once flying cars are as cheap and easy to own and operate as regular cars, why would anyone buy a non-flying car?
- digging 3y ago
  I think you're going to need to explain your position a little better.
  - saalweachter 3y ago
    Upload, like flying cars, is a particular vision of a scifi future technology which may not come to pass. You're prognosticating a future "when X...", when that "when" is a very big "if".
creer 3y ago
Digitization is one direction but I think augmentation is perhaps a more likely one. Or a first one. Digitization can follow in a "Ship of Theseus" fashion. And augmentation branches then in AI as symbiont versus AI as desktop assistant.
- digging 3y ago
  > Digitization is one direction but I think augmentation is perhaps a more likely one. Or a first one. First seems likely, but as a permanent alternative I don't know why a species would eschew lightspeed transportation and effortless immortality for the fragility and slowness of an organic body. It's possible there are good reasons, but I don't know of any.
  - creer 3y ago
    Digitization, upload, has always seemed to me an iffy goal. The brains' packaging doesn't seem very amenable to any of our current technologies, as far as being able to "read" it. And then once read emulating it seems just as difficult. Once uploaded comes the issue of getting computing time to run it (the economics and politics of prefering run time of X over run time of Y). And maintaining the computing platform. Certainly there are immense advantages to the digitized form - of course. By contrast, augmentation (which is what we already do) seems straightforward. And seems to fit current society "easily" (haha - or let's say it will be tough enough as a first stage.) So that from the point of view of a next epoch in life forms, AI fits more immediately in the struggle of AI as symbiont, AI as independent, or AI as desktop assistant.