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I do not relish the idea of having to download Facebook/Instagram/WhatsApp directly from a 3rd party store. For me Apple standing between sketchy devs like Zuck

by bb123 3y ago

I do not relish the idea of having to download Facebook/Instagram/WhatsApp directly from a 3rd party store. For me Apple standing between sketchy devs like Zuck-co and my phone is a feature not a bug.

Kbelicius 3y ago
> For me Apple standing between sketchy devs like Zuck-co and my phone is a feature not a bug. They still do since, you know, they make the OS on which those apps would run.
dylan604 3y ago
If you see apps only appearing in 3rd party stores and not on the Apple store, then that would be a huge red flag. Hopefully, there will be someone looking to make a name for themselves that would download the binaries from each store it is available and test for any differences. Those looking to avoid the cut paid to Apple seem to get all of the attention, but it's these more nefarious things that scare the bejeebus out of me. I don't even use apps from Apple's store because of the shit devs pull. No way in hell would I use something unregulated
smoldesu 3y ago
From United States v. American Tel. (1983): > The threat to competition that is claimed to be posed by AT&T in this industry is that, through the use of cross-subsidization and customer discrimination, it will use its power in the interexchange market to disadvantage competing electronic publishers. While the possibility of cross-subsidization is as remote here as it is with respect to other subjects considered herein, there is a real danger that AT&T will use its control of the interexchange network to undermine competing publishing ventures. Sounds familiar, I wonder how things ended for Ma Bell?
- dylan604 3y ago
  > I wonder how things ended for Ma Bell? For a while, they were broken up into the baby bells. Then, one baby bell started buying up all of the other baby bells and renamed itself ATT. Clearly, that's a totally different company than AT&T. So, ultimately, nothing.
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    From a less misanthropic perspective, we avoided the immediate outcome of a direct monopoly and have an undeniably more robust telecommunications infrastructure because of it. If we get an AT&T-style placation out of Apple, I'd consider ourselves lucky.
  - abhibeckert 3y ago
    Ma Bell, at it's peak, was arguably biggest company in the entire world. The new comglomerate of "baby bells" isn't even the biggest Telco provider in the USA, let alone the biggest company in the USA... let alone the biggest in the world.
ThatPlayer 3y ago
You can choose to let Apple stand between you by staying on Apple's App Store. If you don't get an app because Apple is blocking it from the App Store, isn't that working as intended? If you choose to ignore Apple's block and get the app elsewhere, then it sounds like Apple's barrier is a bug
- huytersd 3y ago
  Not if Facebook, WhatsApp etc pull their apps from the App Store and only make it available from 3rd party sources.
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    That's a possibility right now, with or without iOS sideloading. Nothing stops Facebook or WhatsApp from bypassing Apple's native guidelines and force their evil, expensive anticonsumer practices down user's throat on the web or competing platforms.
  - robin_reala 3y ago
    Android already has third-party app stores. Have Meta done that there?
    - huytersd 3y ago
      Android is fragmented and open source. There’s no large entitý to squeeze money out of.
  - ThatPlayer 3y ago
    That's my point. If consumers are willing to go directly to Facebook, and Facebook are willing to serve them directly, why does Apple need to get involved? On the other hand, if consumers want Apple involved, they wouldn't leave the app store, they wouldn't download the app, and the app will fail when there's no users.
abhibeckert 3y ago
If you hate Zuck so much, why are you using his products?
- Nevermark 3y ago
  Maybe the causal direction goes the other way. Someone who loves Zuck products and finds them indispensable, but still underhanded and despicable in terms of user abuse (surveillance, manipulative feeds, no socially healthy ad-free no-tracking neutral-feed for-pay option …), has reason to dislike Mr. Meta. Unfortunately, reality is rarely as a la carte as we all might wish.
perryizgr8 3y ago
> I do not relish the idea of having to download Facebook/Instagram/WhatsApp directly from a 3rd party store. So don't. It's your choice. The benefit is that those who don't mind, will also be able to exercise their choice.
jjulius 3y ago
A whole lot of people taking this hypothetical seriously but nobody bothering to ask the real question... Why do you think you will be unable to download FB, IG & WA from the App Store?
- mckn1ght 3y ago
  Imagine being able to make in app purchases for boosting your posts, or ad campaigns, facebook marketplace items (think meta brand items just like amazon brand items) or tiktok shop items. Now imagine those companies paying a percentage off the top for app store in-app purchases when there is an alternative that doesn’t involve that percentage. Facebook and Amazon have both tried (and failed) to make their own phones. That’s how much they want to control the entire UX. Of course they would funnel people to their own app stores. Hell, app stores themselves are places to sell ads and other apps, Apple has proven that. So why wouldn’t a company with the developer resources and monetization potential of Meta or Amazon create their own app store?
  - infotainment 3y ago
    Simple: if they were going to do that, they already would have on Android, where it's possible right now. Sure, Meta could demand that people install their super-extra-spyware version of Instagram from the META STORE instead of Google Play. But, what they'd likely find out is the same thing Epic found out when it tried to found its own store: most users just don't care enough to install stuff from third-party stores, and generally won't bother.
    - disgruntledphd2 3y ago
      > Simple: if they were going to do that, they already would have on Android, where it's possible right now. Maybe, maybe not. Android didn't attempt to destroy their business though, whereas Apple did (and then turned around and introduced their own, non ATT compliant ad system).
      - jjulius 3y ago

by bb123 3y ago

Kbelicius 3y ago

> For me Apple standing between sketchy devs like Zuck-co and my phone is a feature not a bug. They still do since, you know, they make the OS on which those apps would run.

dylan604 3y ago

If you see apps only appearing in 3rd party stores and not on the Apple store, then that would be a huge red flag. Hopefully, there will be someone looking to make a name for themselves that would download the binaries from each store it is available and test for any differences. Those looking to avoid the cut paid to Apple seem to get all of the attention, but it's these more nefarious things that scare the bejeebus out of me. I don't even use apps from Apple's store because of the shit devs pull. No way in hell would I use something unregulated

smoldesu 3y ago

From United States v. American Tel. (1983): > The threat to competition that is claimed to be posed by AT&T in this industry is that, through the use of cross-subsidization and customer discrimination, it will use its power in the interexchange market to disadvantage competing electronic publishers. While the possibility of cross-subsidization is as remote here as it is with respect to other subjects considered herein, there is a real danger that AT&T will use its control of the interexchange network to undermine competing publishing ventures. Sounds familiar, I wonder how things ended for Ma Bell?

dylan604 3y ago
> I wonder how things ended for Ma Bell? For a while, they were broken up into the baby bells. Then, one baby bell started buying up all of the other baby bells and renamed itself ATT. Clearly, that's a totally different company than AT&T. So, ultimately, nothing.
- smoldesu 3y ago
  From a less misanthropic perspective, we avoided the immediate outcome of a direct monopoly and have an undeniably more robust telecommunications infrastructure because of it. If we get an AT&T-style placation out of Apple, I'd consider ourselves lucky.
- abhibeckert 3y ago
  Ma Bell, at it's peak, was arguably biggest company in the entire world. The new comglomerate of "baby bells" isn't even the biggest Telco provider in the USA, let alone the biggest company in the USA... let alone the biggest in the world.

ThatPlayer 3y ago

You can choose to let Apple stand between you by staying on Apple's App Store. If you don't get an app because Apple is blocking it from the App Store, isn't that working as intended? If you choose to ignore Apple's block and get the app elsewhere, then it sounds like Apple's barrier is a bug

huytersd 3y ago
Not if Facebook, WhatsApp etc pull their apps from the App Store and only make it available from 3rd party sources.
- smoldesu 3y ago
  That's a possibility right now, with or without iOS sideloading. Nothing stops Facebook or WhatsApp from bypassing Apple's native guidelines and force their evil, expensive anticonsumer practices down user's throat on the web or competing platforms.
- robin_reala 3y ago
  Android already has third-party app stores. Have Meta done that there?
  - huytersd 3y ago
    Android is fragmented and open source. There’s no large entitý to squeeze money out of.
- ThatPlayer 3y ago
  That's my point. If consumers are willing to go directly to Facebook, and Facebook are willing to serve them directly, why does Apple need to get involved? On the other hand, if consumers want Apple involved, they wouldn't leave the app store, they wouldn't download the app, and the app will fail when there's no users.

abhibeckert 3y ago

If you hate Zuck so much, why are you using his products?

Nevermark 3y ago
Maybe the causal direction goes the other way. Someone who loves Zuck products and finds them indispensable, but still underhanded and despicable in terms of user abuse (surveillance, manipulative feeds, no socially healthy ad-free no-tracking neutral-feed for-pay option …), has reason to dislike Mr. Meta. Unfortunately, reality is rarely as a la carte as we all might wish.

perryizgr8 3y ago

> I do not relish the idea of having to download Facebook/Instagram/WhatsApp directly from a 3rd party store. So don't. It's your choice. The benefit is that those who don't mind, will also be able to exercise their choice.

jjulius 3y ago

A whole lot of people taking this hypothetical seriously but nobody bothering to ask the real question... Why do you think you will be unable to download FB, IG & WA from the App Store?

mckn1ght 3y ago
Imagine being able to make in app purchases for boosting your posts, or ad campaigns, facebook marketplace items (think meta brand items just like amazon brand items) or tiktok shop items. Now imagine those companies paying a percentage off the top for app store in-app purchases when there is an alternative that doesn’t involve that percentage. Facebook and Amazon have both tried (and failed) to make their own phones. That’s how much they want to control the entire UX. Of course they would funnel people to their own app stores. Hell, app stores themselves are places to sell ads and other apps, Apple has proven that. So why wouldn’t a company with the developer resources and monetization potential of Meta or Amazon create their own app store?
- infotainment 3y ago
  Simple: if they were going to do that, they already would have on Android, where it's possible right now. Sure, Meta could demand that people install their super-extra-spyware version of Instagram from the META STORE instead of Google Play. But, what they'd likely find out is the same thing Epic found out when it tried to found its own store: most users just don't care enough to install stuff from third-party stores, and generally won't bother.
  - disgruntledphd2 3y ago
    > Simple: if they were going to do that, they already would have on Android, where it's possible right now. Maybe, maybe not. Android didn't attempt to destroy their business though, whereas Apple did (and then turned around and introduced their own, non ATT compliant ad system).
    - jjulius 3y ago