5 ms·

You think BSDs are next-in-line? Why is that? I have the distinct impression BSDs will remain niche. Something radical (like MotorOS?) seems more likely.

by haarts 3y ago

gamache 3y ago
macOS and iOS are BSDs. Pretty good niche!
- prmoustache 3y ago
  This is pretty much a myth. Both run a different kernel. macOS used be known to have a network stack (and maybe some stuff like a virtual file system) from freebsd but I am pretty sure most of the code has been replaced by now. Having some BSD userland binaries doesn't make your OS a BSD. Otherwise Windows is just a fork of curl.
  - toast0 3y ago
    Last I checked, Darwin sources for tcp still look a lot like FreeBSD circa 2000 plus some Apple patches (MPTCP). No syncookies in 2024, because FreeBSD added those months after Apple forked the stack.
  - gamache 3y ago
    I argue that having a BSD license (in Darwin), BSD heritage (NeXTSTEP, FreeBSD, briefly NetBSD), and a mostly BSD userland 20+ years into the project makes this OS a BSD.
    - prmoustache 3y ago
      Darwin is not Mac OS X and vice-versa.
dylukes 3y ago
What do you think is running on your favorite game consoles (that aren't Xbox)? I'll give you a hint, it isn't Linux. Nintendo is using a custom OS but with a huge chunk of user space borrowed from FreeBSD. Sony on the other hand just went and forked FreeBSD outright. You might also want to look into what OS are being used for server environments. A lot more BSD there than you might have initially guessed.
- xxs 3y ago
  > your favorite game consoles unless it's a steamDeck, ofc. No love for consoles, though.
  - dylukes 3y ago
    If I'm in the mood for being a little glib... where do you think that Linux distribution that SteamOS is based on got its user-space (or more seriously, its drivers?) Also: the SteamDeck is by any reasonable standard a console. It just happens to run a windowed environment out of the box. Don't be that guy. If you want to pump Valve, focus instead on their contributions to the Wine project.
    - xxs 3y ago
      No idea why the personal involvement with valve pumping has come from. Atari "VCS All-In Bundle" is debian based, too. They are not playstation popular, of course. Like mentioned "no love for consoles", dont own one, not interested, either.
    - rascul 3y ago
      > where do you think that Linux distribution that SteamOS is based on got its user-space (or more seriously, its drivers?) Are you saying that Arch gets its userspace and drivers from FreeBSD?
      - seanw444 3y ago
        I guess there is some BSD software that is common in Linux, like OpenSSH tools and dhcpcd. But that's not unique to Arch.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  And thanks to the BSD license, the project is getting zero back from Sony, while those Playstation profits get a big higher thanks to less R&D costs spent on OS code. Same applies to clang/LLVM port to the Playstation, regarding everything that would expose console implementation details without an NDA.

You think BSDs are next-in-line? Why is that? I have the distinct impression BSDs will remain niche. Something radical (like MotorOS?) seems more likely.

by haarts 3y ago

You think BSDs are next-in-line? Why is that? I have the distinct impression BSDs will remain niche. Something radical (like MotorOS?) seems more likely.

gamache 3y ago

macOS and iOS are BSDs. Pretty good niche!

prmoustache 3y ago
This is pretty much a myth. Both run a different kernel. macOS used be known to have a network stack (and maybe some stuff like a virtual file system) from freebsd but I am pretty sure most of the code has been replaced by now. Having some BSD userland binaries doesn't make your OS a BSD. Otherwise Windows is just a fork of curl.
- toast0 3y ago
  Last I checked, Darwin sources for tcp still look a lot like FreeBSD circa 2000 plus some Apple patches (MPTCP). No syncookies in 2024, because FreeBSD added those months after Apple forked the stack.
- gamache 3y ago
  I argue that having a BSD license (in Darwin), BSD heritage (NeXTSTEP, FreeBSD, briefly NetBSD), and a mostly BSD userland 20+ years into the project makes this OS a BSD.
  - prmoustache 3y ago
    Darwin is not Mac OS X and vice-versa.

dylukes 3y ago

What do you think is running on your favorite game consoles (that aren't Xbox)? I'll give you a hint, it isn't Linux. Nintendo is using a custom OS but with a huge chunk of user space borrowed from FreeBSD. Sony on the other hand just went and forked FreeBSD outright. You might also want to look into what OS are being used for server environments. A lot more BSD there than you might have initially guessed.

xxs 3y ago
> your favorite game consoles unless it's a steamDeck, ofc. No love for consoles, though.
- dylukes 3y ago
  If I'm in the mood for being a little glib... where do you think that Linux distribution that SteamOS is based on got its user-space (or more seriously, its drivers?) Also: the SteamDeck is by any reasonable standard a console. It just happens to run a windowed environment out of the box. Don't be that guy. If you want to pump Valve, focus instead on their contributions to the Wine project.
  - xxs 3y ago
    No idea why the personal involvement with valve pumping has come from. Atari "VCS All-In Bundle" is debian based, too. They are not playstation popular, of course. Like mentioned "no love for consoles", dont own one, not interested, either.
  - rascul 3y ago
    > where do you think that Linux distribution that SteamOS is based on got its user-space (or more seriously, its drivers?) Are you saying that Arch gets its userspace and drivers from FreeBSD?
    - seanw444 3y ago
      I guess there is some BSD software that is common in Linux, like OpenSSH tools and dhcpcd. But that's not unique to Arch.
pjmlp 3y ago
And thanks to the BSD license, the project is getting zero back from Sony, while those Playstation profits get a big higher thanks to less R&D costs spent on OS code. Same applies to clang/LLVM port to the Playstation, regarding everything that would expose console implementation details without an NDA.