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Why America hates its children
- nlawalker 3y agoAlso, recently in the Atlantic: Why Parents Struggle So Much in the World’s Richest Country Gift link: https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2024/01/america-failed-parents-rich-countries-raising-kids/677023/?gift=Ex_YT3j3w4bpWvzqHtkwO4cFDxU4siZoPzA_k5RwGk0&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2024/01/america-f...
- nickd2001 3y agoInteresting article. Seems weird to me, as a Brit, why there isn't more pressure from American parents against guns. One might expect them to think "OK, I like having the right to own a gun, but I don't want kids entire lives to revolve (pardon the pun!) around the threat of gun violence, so there needs to be some kind of control". But apparently not... I know someone (British) who's engaged to an American and in the process of moving there and planning to have kid(s), who intends to homeschool her kid(s) because she doesn't think 5-yr-olds having to be given training in case a shooter enters their school is healthy. I mean, I agree with her, but having to homeschool them to avoid this... it's madness.
- throwup238 3y agoChildren don’t vote. If they would only get up off their butts and vote, they’d get some representation. Imagine what they could do if they pooled all their lunch money and started a SuperPAC! Then Congress would take notice. Their parents sure as hell aren’t going to do the voting for them. They just want lower taxes.
- redeeman 3y ago[flagged]
- throwup238 3y agoThere’s always Somalia. I heard it’s got great schools, if “child soldier” is what you aspire your children to be. But hey at least no one will be there to “steal” your hard earned currency that was minted by a central government or build you those pesky roads or whatever.
- redeeman 3y ago[flagged]
- bediger4000 3y agoThat's not what OP was talking about. You can do better.
- rad_gruchalski 3y agoThere are 15 other places in the world. Somalia isn’t the only one: https://nomadcapitalist.com/global-citizen/countries-no-income-tax/ https://nomadcapitalist.com/global-citizen/countries-no-inco....
- redeeman 3y ago[flagged]
- lumost 3y ago
- rayiner 3y agoSo this article goes on for paragraphs blaming republicans and evangelicals and the red scare and slavery. But why do democrats (apparently) hate their children as well? After all, education is 90% funded by states and municipalities. That’s not unique to the US—education is a local issue everywhere from Sweden to Canada to Germany. Why are schools falling apart in Baltimore and Chicago? Why aren’t social services for children materially better in Illinois and New York? For example, the article prominently quotes a state Rep from Idaho to illustrate why the author’s political opponents have the wrong values. But 8th graders in Idaho do better in reading than those in California, Delaware, Oregon, and Maryland, and comparably to New York, Vermont, Connecticut, and Minnesota. https://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/subject/publications/stt2022/pdf/2023010ID8.pdf https://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/subject/publications/s.... And Idaho is a lot poorer than those states! The author’s comparison to Greece is unintentionally revealing. Allegedly, Greece doesn’t hate its children. But Greece spends only 4% of GDP on education, in comparison to 6% for the US. Another telling data point: over 90% of Greek children live with both parents, compared to under 70% in the US.
- scrubs 3y agoThe Breakfast club analogy in the first 2/3rds of the film --- there's a finite number of distinct and static social-idelogical-clubs --- analogously Republicans and Democrats in politics is silly. No penetrating and practical solutions will follow from this contextualization.
- paulryanrogers 3y agoIdaho has a small fraction of the population and diversity of those other places. Their challenges are significantly easier. Having been raised Republican and evangelical, I'd agree with the article. Those groups push kids under the bus and think they're doing the kids a favor. European countries have many problems; IME placing profit, religion, and extreme forms of individualism above child well-being aren't on the list.
- rayiner 3y ago> Idaho has a small fraction of the population and diversity of those other places. That's a weird statement. By your logic, diversity makes people's lives worse, and folks in Idaho are justified in wanting no part in it. > Having been raised Republican and evangelical, I'd agree with the article. Those groups push kids under the bus and think they're doing the kids a favor. But, on objective metrics, those dumbfucks in Idaho are doing a better job teaching their kids to read than those in California--and for a lot less money. It's not just reading scores. Conservatives have greater well-being on various objective measures: https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2023/03/how-to-understand-the-well-being-gap-between-liberals-and-conservatives/ https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2023/03/how-to-understand.... That includes their kids: https://www.foxnews.com/media/conservative-teenagers-generally-happier-liberal-peers-study-finds https://www.foxnews.com/media/conservative-teenagers-general.... Utah has the kind of flat, egalitarian society liberals say they want to create: https://www.deseret.com/utah/2023/12/28/24017943/best-state-in-country-for-upward-mobility-utah#:~:text=“Utah%20ranks%20first%20overall%20in,%2C%20and%20charity%20(sixth) https://www.deseret.com/utah/2023/12/28/24017943/best-state-.... ("A 2014 article in The Atlantic pointed toward two strengths that Salt Lake City has that make it a positive environment for upward mobility: 'A strong middle class and a less extreme gap between the rich and the poor.' ... Based on data from 2020 to 2022, the Gini Index from the U.S. Census Bureau ranks Utah as having one of the lowest economic inequality scores across the country."). > European countries have many problems; IME placing profit, religion, and extreme forms of individualism above child well-being aren't on the list. In America, religion is pretty much the only check on "extreme forms of individualism." Silicon Valley and Wall Street are the places where, more than anywhere else in America, people worship money rather than God. Are those models to follow?
- dudul 3y ago"Last summer, my kids and I spent a month in Greece, where their grandfather lives." Very first sentence of the article. God do I hate this style. Do we always need to start with your own, personal, true-to-you, totally-happened experience this one time? Is it a new thing or it's always been like that and I didn't realize it?
- Mountain_Skies 3y agoMaking an emotional connection with the reader builds trust which later can be exploited to present assertions without solid evidence.
- techdragon 3y agoYes… but often it tells you how little time they have spent actually engaged with the real truth of the place or places they are about to compare the problems of wherever they live, instead of the idealistic view of someone who was visiting family or being a tourist … it is a shortcut to that emotional connection to the reader, but taking that can sometimes leave the writer clearly marked as not actually having any grounds upon which the rest of their arguments can stand… This however doesn’t appear to suffer from that. It seems quite well considered.
- paulryanrogers 3y agoIs it really so distracting from the larger point? Are you aware of counter evidence, proving Greece is systematically neglecting its children? Keep reading
- dudul 3y agoYes it is distracting. I'm sure Greece, like all other countries in the world except America, treats its children wonderfully, but I don't need to know that the author spent 2 weeks on vacation there, and everybody was so nice to their kids in the bookstore or the library. And maybe the article eventually uses data that goes beyond "my 2 weeks visiting my dad", but then why do I need this idiotic intro? Is it supposed to build some sort of credibility, like "I was there, I saw it, I experienced it, now you have to agree with me"? Anyway, no I didn't keep reading.
- dadjoker 3y ago"Virtually every other industrialized nation provides more government aid for their children than America does. " Somehow I knew that would be the main point as soon as I saw the title and the publication. For many, the answer to all problems is government spending.
- paulryanrogers 3y agoPerhaps you should keep reading?
- Mountain_Skies 3y agoGiven the increasingly inverse educational outcomes relative to per pupil spending, it really does sound like they've reduced a complex situation down to a single variable that has a rather poor predicative function.
- paulryanrogers 3y agoDifferent areas have different CoL. So if you compare unadjusted spending per pupil you'll get a skewed picture. Different areas also have different mixes of cultures, expectations, and parental challenges like poverty or needing to work multiple jobs. The article specifically calls out that families in our capitalist nightmare need help feeding their kids and caring for those too young for school.
- jjgreen 3y agoDuring Covid, when I read that the US required children to wear facemasks from the age of two, it sent a shiver down my spine.
- navjack27 3y agoWhy does that upset you? Children should be protected against airborne transmittable sickness. Also, we are still in COVID it's not over.
- google234123 3y agoDefinitely hinders their development
- dadjoker 3y agoIt's well documented that 1) children are/were barely affected by COVID, and 2) mask caused more problems, especially for younger kids who are learning to speak, and need to be able to see facial expressions. COVID is around, and always will be. And "protecting" causes more harm and weakens the development of the immune system. All well known and common sense stuff, to those who don't live in fear of merely getting sick.
- iteria 3y agoWe don't actually know that children were barely affected by covid. Covid is a pretty unknown disease in the long term. It could be like chicken pox which looked harmless in children until a few decades later with shingles. Maybe we'll find out that having young co-relates with later adult outcomes like how having multiple serious bouts of the flu qas corelated with mental decline. We don't even know if covid would be like the flu when it first appeared where future waves would be worse in children. It's best to be cautious with a disease that still hasn't settled into a stable form.
- jzackpete 3y agoPascal's wager. Masking and isolating children has a known cost, your speculative consequences don't
- proc0 3y ago> At root, we must overthrow the persistent delusion of rugged individualism — the perverse American mythology that everyone must fend for themselves, no matter the cost. I don't think the author considered their own bias since there is no mention of movements like gender ideology that are the epitome of individualism, which says that anyone can declare their own gender and identity. If you can define your own identity, how is society supposed to function in any coherent way? People can't predict your role in society, and so the default behavior is to ignore people and let everyone live their lives in whatever way they please. I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong, but it's a blind spot of the article's analysis. Progressivism is aiming for the maximum amount of individualism, as it aspires to maximize individual freedom and create technology that empowers the individual, from cars to VR. The alternative is to maximize the family as the basic unit of society, but in order to do that you have to define what a family is, and right now it seems the status quo is dismantling the family structure and giving individuals direct control of their role and identity in society (which amounts to having no roles).
- elevation 3y ago> How many articles have I read about whether children should be allowed on airplanes, or at weddings, or in restaurants? American culture’s view of children as burdensome is a self fulfilling prophecy. Parents may sarcastically quip about their children’s imposition on their careers, finances, and sex lives, but they practice genuine resentment when they get some “me time” by encouraging a child’s screen time addiction, or by refusing to punish a child’s antisocial behavior. Their mal-adjusted children are unsuitable companions in a social venue, a genuine burden unwelcome to society for many years longer than they need be. You can break this cycle by not thinking of your child like a burden, and by training them to not be a burden to others. Shortly after I could talk, I was raised to address adults respectfully and to say please and thank you. My dad would also have us practice sitting still and quiet for a few minutes before bed. These basic manners elicited a decade of compliments from wait staff and flight attendants effusively telling my parents what nice children we were. Given what a small effort it takes to make eye contact and say “thank you”, even at the time I understood their praise as more a comment on society. Now that I have children of my own, I’ve taught them from a young age how to attend a funeral or wedding (or grocery store) without ruining it for others. I can bring them without hesitation to a meeting with my banker or lawyer, excellent learning opportunities. They say please and thank you, and in response, adults across our community dote on and encourage and appreciate my children, and their good behaviour has earned them privileges and opportunity that I couldn’t personally have awarded them. I refuse to call my wife a “ball and chain” or to refer to nun
- elevation 3y ago@dang: The above comment was a draft which I'd love to remove.
- elevation 3y ago> How many articles have I read about whether children should be allowed on airplanes, or at weddings, or in restaurants? American culture’s view of children as burdensome is a self fulfilling prophecy. Parents may sarcastically quip about their children’s imposition on their careers, finances, and sex lives, but they practice genuine resentment when they get some “me time” by encouraging a child’s screen time addiction, or by refusing to punish a child’s antisocial behavior. Their mal-adjusted children are unsuitable companions in a social venue, a genuine burden unwelcome to society for many years longer than they need be, and it breeds anti child sentiment. You can break this cycle by not thinking of your child like a burden, and by training them to not be a burden to others. Shortly after I could talk, I was raised to address adults respectfully and to say please and thank you. My dad would also have us practice sitting still and quiet for a few minutes before bed. These basic manners elicited a decade of compliments from wait staff and flight attendants effusively telling my parents what nice children we were. Given what a small effort it takes to make eye contact and say “thank you”, even at the time I understood their praise as more a comment on society. Now that I have children of my own, I’ve taught them from a young age how to attend a funeral or wedding (or grocery store) without ruining it for others. I can bring them without hesitation to a meeting with my banker or lawyer, excellent learning opportunities. They say please and thank you, and in response, adults across our community dote on and encourage and appreciate my children, and their good behaviour has earned them privileges and opportunity that I couldn’t personally have awarded them. I’ve done my best to avoid the attitude trap of treating my children like a burden. They are each individually and altogether one of the greatest joys I’ve ever known. And teaching them a modicum of manners early on seems to have reopened whatever doors for them that American anti-child culture would have closed.