7 ms·

can you define common sense versus woke? the term woke has lost all meaning, and now seems to mean ‘whatever i find to be outside of expectations i have had set

can you define common sense versus woke? the term woke has lost all meaning, and now seems to mean ‘whatever i find to be outside of expectations i have had set’, and i legit would love to understand it better so i am not misinterpreting all the argumetns i see

faeriechangling 3y ago
[flagged]
- baobabKoodaa 3y ago
  I appreciate that you tried to provide an answer. Unfortunately there's just no way to satisfy the leftists when they ask you to define words for them. The thing is these people are never genuinely interested in defining a word, it's all just a sick game of rhetorical wordplay where criticisms are deflected by muddying the waters.
  - hutzlibu 3y ago
    Can you provide a definition what "leftist" means to you? Or more advanced, can you provide a definition what "leftist" means to which leftist would agree? Or is the definition of a leftist to you, someone who does not define a word?
    - flkenosad 3y ago
      Parent was just ranting about how y'all obsess over definitions and your comment is basically, "define this, define that." Did you even listen to what was being said? I'm starting to think most of the left is just bots at this point.
      - hutzlibu 3y ago
        I suppose I need to add a disclaimer every time I participate in those debates: "I am neither left, nor right, nor US and don't have any horse in this race." But most of this just smells like classical strawman debates to me: "They think X and this is stupid" "no we don't think this, we think Y and you think Z" "no we don't we .." So my point with my question actually was: I don't think there is a coherent group calling themself "leftist" (nor "rightists"). So I don't think those debates lumping them all together are that productive, except for letting go off some personal steam. There are of course people who call themself "left" and want their ideology to rule the world. And there are of course people who call themself right, who wants to do the same. But to my knowledge, there are also lots of people left and right, who do not want this.
  - flkenosad 3y ago
    Nonetheless, a useful comment IMO. Well articulated and in good faith.
lupusreal 3y ago
"Common sense" means focusing on first order effects. Don't prod your coworkers about their race because that will obviously make them feel uncomfortable. Woke, in this case, is focusing on Nth order effects.. do prod your coworker about their race because abstract reasons justified by theories about social abstractions... Thinking about group effects that might kick in at the societal level instead of the effect you're having immediately on the individual sitting right in front of you. The former, first order common sense thinking, is what normal people intuitively do. Focusing on the individual when dealing with an individual is the common sense approach. The second, focusing about abstract secondary group effects when dealing with an individual, is something people get trained into doing by sociology class in university, or being lectured on the internet, or being indoctrinated into a racist ideology. A traditional racist or a modern woke person doesn't see individuals, they see representatives of abstract groups that must be treated in some way calculated to have Nth order group effects.
devnullbrain 3y ago
'Woke' is 'red pilled' with a different colour tie.

faeriechangling 3y ago

[flagged]

baobabKoodaa 3y ago
I appreciate that you tried to provide an answer. Unfortunately there's just no way to satisfy the leftists when they ask you to define words for them. The thing is these people are never genuinely interested in defining a word, it's all just a sick game of rhetorical wordplay where criticisms are deflected by muddying the waters.
- hutzlibu 3y ago
  Can you provide a definition what "leftist" means to you? Or more advanced, can you provide a definition what "leftist" means to which leftist would agree? Or is the definition of a leftist to you, someone who does not define a word?
  - flkenosad 3y ago
    Parent was just ranting about how y'all obsess over definitions and your comment is basically, "define this, define that." Did you even listen to what was being said? I'm starting to think most of the left is just bots at this point.
    - hutzlibu 3y ago
      I suppose I need to add a disclaimer every time I participate in those debates: "I am neither left, nor right, nor US and don't have any horse in this race." But most of this just smells like classical strawman debates to me: "They think X and this is stupid" "no we don't think this, we think Y and you think Z" "no we don't we .." So my point with my question actually was: I don't think there is a coherent group calling themself "leftist" (nor "rightists"). So I don't think those debates lumping them all together are that productive, except for letting go off some personal steam. There are of course people who call themself "left" and want their ideology to rule the world. And there are of course people who call themself right, who wants to do the same. But to my knowledge, there are also lots of people left and right, who do not want this.
- flkenosad 3y ago
  Nonetheless, a useful comment IMO. Well articulated and in good faith.

lupusreal 3y ago

"Common sense" means focusing on first order effects. Don't prod your coworkers about their race because that will obviously make them feel uncomfortable. Woke, in this case, is focusing on Nth order effects.. do prod your coworker about their race because abstract reasons justified by theories about social abstractions... Thinking about group effects that might kick in at the societal level instead of the effect you're having immediately on the individual sitting right in front of you. The former, first order common sense thinking, is what normal people intuitively do. Focusing on the individual when dealing with an individual is the common sense approach. The second, focusing about abstract secondary group effects when dealing with an individual, is something people get trained into doing by sociology class in university, or being lectured on the internet, or being indoctrinated into a racist ideology. A traditional racist or a modern woke person doesn't see individuals, they see representatives of abstract groups that must be treated in some way calculated to have Nth order group effects.

devnullbrain 3y ago

'Woke' is 'red pilled' with a different colour tie.