6 ms·

Common sense. EVs are amazing but they are not where close to being practical replacement for ICE engines. Governments should stop subdizing rich people's EVs a

by rhuru 3y ago

Common sense. EVs are amazing but they are not where close to being practical replacement for ICE engines. Governments should stop subdizing rich people's EVs and insteead help make more efficient and cheaper ICE engines.

emestifs 3y ago
Gotta love the comment section, anyone can write anything they feel like, regardless of...well anything.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- AllegedAlec 3y ago
  As shown by your comment
majormajor 3y ago
> Governments should stop subdizing rich people's EVs and insteead help make more efficient and cheaper ICE engines. In the US the government has been helping (by a definition of "helping" that means "forcing the development of by tightening emissions and efficiency requirements") that development of more-efficient for decades. It's not an either-or for that vs EVs. And it's also not exactly popular either; not hard to find people bemoaning the loss of naturally-aspirated engines and higher displacement. The market has repeatedly also chosen "more powerful" over "cheaper" for decades now. Possibly some targeting of hybrid subsidies as well would help, but it seems like a lot of hybrids are already doing quite well in the market (e.g. Ford Maverick), so I'm not entirely sure why manufacturers aren't already moving in that direction more after being initially surprised by the demand. But I'm also very unconvinced that cheaper ICE engines or more hybrids are what Buick dealers want.
- _ea1k 3y ago
  I could be wrong, but I think the current "EV Tax incentive" applies to PHEVs and that it is actually easier for a manufacturer to take advantage of it with a pHEV than a full EV.
onethought 3y ago
- Average miles driven per day: 67. - Average cost of a new vehicle: $48,000 - Fastest selling vehicle ever made: Tesla Model Y. Just some data points to consider.
- TrueSlacker0 3y ago
  Damn I am such an outlier if those numbers are actually true. Avg miles drive per day:5 (1.5mile commute each way + some extra generous miles) Avg cost of a new vehicle: idk I've never bought a new vehicle. My last vehicle was a used repo and purchased in 2009. Still going strong. Fastest selling vehicle ever made: without some data point this seems like complete bs. Toyota, Ford, Honda, insert every major car company, makes more vehicles per year than Tesla could dream about.
  - Spastche 3y ago
    their data seems sketchy to me, I'm pretty sure 67 miles a day definitely isn't the average. and yea "fastest selling" seems like a bs metric to boost Tesla
    - onethought 3y ago
      Sorry that was a typo. It was 37. Fastest selling car, most units sold in a day/week/quarter/year… I don’t know how else to say it. My point was about EV popularity not trying to boost Tesla.
jupp0r 3y ago
You should visit Norway sometime.
thebruce87m 3y ago
I’ve replaced my diesel with an EV and it’s better in every way. Cheaper to run, less waiting since I charge at home, faster car, more spacious inside, better tech. Definitely a practical replacement for some. The fuel savings alone are around £1,200/year for me on 10k miles per year. Once the price of the cars come down this will be a big saving for a lot of people.
- Geisterde 3y ago
  Well thats the rub innit. I loved the bmw i3, I love my tesla even more, but they are f'in expensive cars, my coworkers are coming to work in beaters that cost less than a fifth of what I spent on my model 3, my down payment was more than several of the cars in my parking lot.
- pardoned_turkey 3y ago
  It's a bit weird because electricity delivered to your home is generally more expensive than fossil fuels. What currently makes EVs cheaper to operate is that at the pump, you pay hefty taxes that go toward road maintenance and related purposes. For now, this taxation disparity incentivizes driving EVs. In the long haul, this will probably go away. I'm surprised by the "more spacious" comment, however. In the same size class, EVs tend to be more cramped because of how much space is needed for batteries. Even for large cars, like the Cybertruck, the trade-offs are fairly evident. No spare tire, for example.
  - itsoktocry 3y ago
    >What currently makes EVs cheaper to operate is that at the pump, you pay hefty taxes that go toward road maintenance and related purposes. For now, this taxation disparity incentivizes driving EVs. In the long haul, this will probably go away. It will certainly go away, and with it one of the major non-environmental reasons to own an EV: fuel costs.
  - dangrossman 3y ago
    > For now, this taxation disparity incentivizes driving EVs. In the long haul, this will probably go away. 31 states already have an extra annual/registration fee for EVs to make up for the lost gas tax revenue. Often the annual fee on EVs is higher than the average amount of state gas tax paid by the average driver, but this still comes out to just $100-300 per year. This is like 25-50% of typical fuel savings of EV vs ICE vehicles even at today's very low gas prices.
Racing0461 3y ago
every year that 400k number gets whittle down. pretty soon someone making poverty level wages at 24k a year is going to be in the group that gets "taxed".
timbit42 3y ago
If by, "more efficient ... ICE engines", you mean, HEVs and PHEVs, I agree. They're not cheaper though. Until EVs have matured more and become less expensive than ICEVs, PHEVs are the best option and HEVs are the second best option. Also, the term, "ICE engines", is redundant.

by rhuru 3y ago

emestifs 3y ago

Gotta love the comment section, anyone can write anything they feel like, regardless of...well anything.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
AllegedAlec 3y ago
As shown by your comment

majormajor 3y ago

> Governments should stop subdizing rich people's EVs and insteead help make more efficient and cheaper ICE engines. In the US the government has been helping (by a definition of "helping" that means "forcing the development of by tightening emissions and efficiency requirements") that development of more-efficient for decades. It's not an either-or for that vs EVs. And it's also not exactly popular either; not hard to find people bemoaning the loss of naturally-aspirated engines and higher displacement. The market has repeatedly also chosen "more powerful" over "cheaper" for decades now. Possibly some targeting of hybrid subsidies as well would help, but it seems like a lot of hybrids are already doing quite well in the market (e.g. Ford Maverick), so I'm not entirely sure why manufacturers aren't already moving in that direction more after being initially surprised by the demand. But I'm also very unconvinced that cheaper ICE engines or more hybrids are what Buick dealers want.

_ea1k 3y ago
I could be wrong, but I think the current "EV Tax incentive" applies to PHEVs and that it is actually easier for a manufacturer to take advantage of it with a pHEV than a full EV.

onethought 3y ago

- Average miles driven per day: 67. - Average cost of a new vehicle: $48,000 - Fastest selling vehicle ever made: Tesla Model Y. Just some data points to consider.

TrueSlacker0 3y ago
Damn I am such an outlier if those numbers are actually true. Avg miles drive per day:5 (1.5mile commute each way + some extra generous miles) Avg cost of a new vehicle: idk I've never bought a new vehicle. My last vehicle was a used repo and purchased in 2009. Still going strong. Fastest selling vehicle ever made: without some data point this seems like complete bs. Toyota, Ford, Honda, insert every major car company, makes more vehicles per year than Tesla could dream about.
- Spastche 3y ago
  their data seems sketchy to me, I'm pretty sure 67 miles a day definitely isn't the average. and yea "fastest selling" seems like a bs metric to boost Tesla
  - onethought 3y ago
    Sorry that was a typo. It was 37. Fastest selling car, most units sold in a day/week/quarter/year… I don’t know how else to say it. My point was about EV popularity not trying to boost Tesla.

jupp0r 3y ago

You should visit Norway sometime.

thebruce87m 3y ago

I’ve replaced my diesel with an EV and it’s better in every way. Cheaper to run, less waiting since I charge at home, faster car, more spacious inside, better tech. Definitely a practical replacement for some. The fuel savings alone are around £1,200/year for me on 10k miles per year. Once the price of the cars come down this will be a big saving for a lot of people.

Geisterde 3y ago
Well thats the rub innit. I loved the bmw i3, I love my tesla even more, but they are f'in expensive cars, my coworkers are coming to work in beaters that cost less than a fifth of what I spent on my model 3, my down payment was more than several of the cars in my parking lot.
pardoned_turkey 3y ago
It's a bit weird because electricity delivered to your home is generally more expensive than fossil fuels. What currently makes EVs cheaper to operate is that at the pump, you pay hefty taxes that go toward road maintenance and related purposes. For now, this taxation disparity incentivizes driving EVs. In the long haul, this will probably go away. I'm surprised by the "more spacious" comment, however. In the same size class, EVs tend to be more cramped because of how much space is needed for batteries. Even for large cars, like the Cybertruck, the trade-offs are fairly evident. No spare tire, for example.
- itsoktocry 3y ago
  >What currently makes EVs cheaper to operate is that at the pump, you pay hefty taxes that go toward road maintenance and related purposes. For now, this taxation disparity incentivizes driving EVs. In the long haul, this will probably go away. It will certainly go away, and with it one of the major non-environmental reasons to own an EV: fuel costs.
- dangrossman 3y ago
  > For now, this taxation disparity incentivizes driving EVs. In the long haul, this will probably go away. 31 states already have an extra annual/registration fee for EVs to make up for the lost gas tax revenue. Often the annual fee on EVs is higher than the average amount of state gas tax paid by the average driver, but this still comes out to just $100-300 per year. This is like 25-50% of typical fuel savings of EV vs ICE vehicles even at today's very low gas prices.

Racing0461 3y ago

every year that 400k number gets whittle down. pretty soon someone making poverty level wages at 24k a year is going to be in the group that gets "taxed".

timbit42 3y ago

If by, "more efficient ... ICE engines", you mean, HEVs and PHEVs, I agree. They're not cheaper though. Until EVs have matured more and become less expensive than ICEVs, PHEVs are the best option and HEVs are the second best option. Also, the term, "ICE engines", is redundant.