6 ms·

Here's a demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdmODVYPDLA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdmODVYPDLA Didn't realize this before watching, but it's interestin

Here's a demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdmODVYPDLA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdmODVYPDLA Didn't realize this before watching, but it's interesting that there's an incredibly complicated board state but the game state / actions are deterministic, e.g. the players don't have any choices about what to do once the machine is set up.

trescenzi 3y ago
One my decks is actually built around getting the game into infinite combos which cannot end but that also don't kill anyone so the game ends in a tie. Same sort of thing. Always fun to pull off.
- dwd 3y ago
  Blue control deck? Frustrating to play against if the loop is working, but often weak on killing power if it takes a lot of sacrificing to pay the upkeep. I remember one game decades ago where I was slowly ground down by the tapping of a solitary Tim.
  - khana 3y ago
    [dead]
  - brightball 3y ago
    I honestly thought calling Prodigal Sorcerers “Tim” was just a thing from a guy at my local comic store growing up. Thanks for that memory.
    - dwd 3y ago
      Tim: There! King Arthur: What, behind the rabbit? Tim: It is the rabbit! King Arthur: You silly sod!
  - trescenzi 3y ago
    No it's a group hug Commander/EDH deck. We all win together! But yes it does kinda frustrate people. That's the downside of liking Magic because of it being fun to break as a system and not because you want to smash giant monsters into each other.
    - natbennett 3y ago
      I used to play with a guy who had a deck named “Judge Problems.” I don’t know what all was in it (I never played against it) but remember being regaled with tales of what happens when Opalescence and Humility come into play together as part of an effect that puts a bunch of permanents into play all with the same time stamp.
      - thiagoharry 3y ago
        Its the infamous "judge destroyer": https://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?29732-Legacy-Judge-Destroyer-1-0 https://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?29732-Leg...
  - da_chicken 3y ago
    Unbounded automatic combos can be any colors. One of the simplest is: Aether Flash - Enchantment Whenever a creature enters the battlefield, Aether Flash deals 2 damage to it. Polyraptor - Creature - 5/5 Whenever Polyraptor is dealt damage, create a token that's a copy of Polyraptor.
- Fezzik 3y ago
  Most IRL play groups I’ve played with would count that as a loss for you (or, most likely, just not invite you back). And in competitive/regulated play you would timeout and lose. Not sure who these weirdos are that are stipulating to a draw against a deck that is unable to win. Edit: I was wrong! I’ve only been playing competitively on Arena for years now. Per Rule 725.4 infinite loops are draws.
  - badRNG 3y ago
    Seems somewhat analogous to draw by repetition in Chess
  - pyrale 3y ago
    > or, most likely, just not invite you back Paper magic works with infinite combos on the basis that if you can prove them, you can "fast forward". And someone with a draw infinite combo would definitely be welcome in some player circles (see the Jhonny definition).
    - rtkwe 3y ago
      Yeah you demonstrate the loop once and show that other whatever the output of the loop is (damage, mana, creature tokens, mill for your opponents) your board is in the same initial state so it can be repeated an arbitrary number of times (or it's forced to repeat in which case you're in a forced infinite loop).
  - mathgeek 3y ago
    The tournament rules, section 4.4, differ from the comprehensive rules and take precedence in tournaments: https://media.wizards.com/2023/wpn/marketing_materials/wpn/MTG_MTR_2023Dec4.pdf https://media.wizards.com/2023/wpn/marketing_materials/wpn/M...
    - n_plus_1_acc 3y ago
      Does that mean the judge must solve the halting Problem?
- EdwardDiego 3y ago
  A friend of mine had a black/white deck that could loop you to death, it was no fun to play against, soon as he got the cards out he needed, he could (IIRC) banish a creature to the graveyard, then bring it back, repeatedly, and one of those actions inflicted damage on the opponent. It was clever, but also beardy AF, to use a phrase from my days of WH40K
  - LectronPusher 3y ago
    I used the same type of deck in Yu-Gi-Oh a few years ago. Something with fusion summoning elemental heroes which banished everything before bringing everything back. Wasn't all that good, but was somewhat fun to watch opponents realize the loop :)
- jojojaf 3y ago
  Any infinite combo is of this form? Like, if you have an infinite mana combo, you can just keep running the steps of it to block gameplay instead of playing your fireball
  - asvitkine 3y ago
    There's a difference between the player having to decide to keep looping by performing actions vs. the loop continuing on its own via triggers. The rules make a distinction and specifically don't allow someone to do the former indefinitely.

trescenzi 3y ago

One my decks is actually built around getting the game into infinite combos which cannot end but that also don't kill anyone so the game ends in a tie. Same sort of thing. Always fun to pull off.

dwd 3y ago
Blue control deck? Frustrating to play against if the loop is working, but often weak on killing power if it takes a lot of sacrificing to pay the upkeep. I remember one game decades ago where I was slowly ground down by the tapping of a solitary Tim.
- khana 3y ago
  [dead]
- brightball 3y ago
  I honestly thought calling Prodigal Sorcerers “Tim” was just a thing from a guy at my local comic store growing up. Thanks for that memory.
  - dwd 3y ago
    Tim: There! King Arthur: What, behind the rabbit? Tim: It is the rabbit! King Arthur: You silly sod!
- trescenzi 3y ago
  No it's a group hug Commander/EDH deck. We all win together! But yes it does kinda frustrate people. That's the downside of liking Magic because of it being fun to break as a system and not because you want to smash giant monsters into each other.
  - natbennett 3y ago
    I used to play with a guy who had a deck named “Judge Problems.” I don’t know what all was in it (I never played against it) but remember being regaled with tales of what happens when Opalescence and Humility come into play together as part of an effect that puts a bunch of permanents into play all with the same time stamp.
    - thiagoharry 3y ago
      Its the infamous "judge destroyer": https://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?29732-Legacy-Judge-Destroyer-1-0 https://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?29732-Leg...
- da_chicken 3y ago
  Unbounded automatic combos can be any colors. One of the simplest is: Aether Flash - Enchantment Whenever a creature enters the battlefield, Aether Flash deals 2 damage to it. Polyraptor - Creature - 5/5 Whenever Polyraptor is dealt damage, create a token that's a copy of Polyraptor.
Fezzik 3y ago
Most IRL play groups I’ve played with would count that as a loss for you (or, most likely, just not invite you back). And in competitive/regulated play you would timeout and lose. Not sure who these weirdos are that are stipulating to a draw against a deck that is unable to win. Edit: I was wrong! I’ve only been playing competitively on Arena for years now. Per Rule 725.4 infinite loops are draws.
- badRNG 3y ago
  Seems somewhat analogous to draw by repetition in Chess
- pyrale 3y ago
  > or, most likely, just not invite you back Paper magic works with infinite combos on the basis that if you can prove them, you can "fast forward". And someone with a draw infinite combo would definitely be welcome in some player circles (see the Jhonny definition).
  - rtkwe 3y ago
    Yeah you demonstrate the loop once and show that other whatever the output of the loop is (damage, mana, creature tokens, mill for your opponents) your board is in the same initial state so it can be repeated an arbitrary number of times (or it's forced to repeat in which case you're in a forced infinite loop).
- mathgeek 3y ago
  The tournament rules, section 4.4, differ from the comprehensive rules and take precedence in tournaments: https://media.wizards.com/2023/wpn/marketing_materials/wpn/MTG_MTR_2023Dec4.pdf https://media.wizards.com/2023/wpn/marketing_materials/wpn/M...
  - n_plus_1_acc 3y ago
    Does that mean the judge must solve the halting Problem?
EdwardDiego 3y ago
A friend of mine had a black/white deck that could loop you to death, it was no fun to play against, soon as he got the cards out he needed, he could (IIRC) banish a creature to the graveyard, then bring it back, repeatedly, and one of those actions inflicted damage on the opponent. It was clever, but also beardy AF, to use a phrase from my days of WH40K
- LectronPusher 3y ago
  I used the same type of deck in Yu-Gi-Oh a few years ago. Something with fusion summoning elemental heroes which banished everything before bringing everything back. Wasn't all that good, but was somewhat fun to watch opponents realize the loop :)
jojojaf 3y ago
Any infinite combo is of this form? Like, if you have an infinite mana combo, you can just keep running the steps of it to block gameplay instead of playing your fireball
- asvitkine 3y ago
  There's a difference between the player having to decide to keep looping by performing actions vs. the loop continuing on its own via triggers. The rules make a distinction and specifically don't allow someone to do the former indefinitely.