7 ms·

I know I will be crucified for this, but doesn't it seem like a dangerous precedent that a public utility can choose to stop working for certain companies/citiz

I know I will be crucified for this, but doesn't it seem like a dangerous precedent that a public utility can choose to stop working for certain companies/citizens? I understand striking in a binary way, working or not working, but being a public utility and deciding who you serve depending on whatever criteria, be it politics or whatever, seems like it could get ugly depending on the circumstances. Imagine if physicians or bus drivers did this.

wolframhempel 3y ago
I'm surprised that this is something that needs to be said with caution. Does anybody want to live in a world where individual government institutions selectively shun private citizens or companies? A world where - rather than in a court of law - you're punished by the electricity company deciding to cut your power?
- therouwboat 3y ago
  Its not really government thats wants to block deliveries, more like government owned company is supporting workers and unions.
  - whats_a_quasar 3y ago
    The government has the obligation to deliver services to residents and businesses. If some government workers refuse to do the work, the government's obligation is unchanged, and they need to find another way to fulfill it
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > government has the obligation to deliver services to residents and businesses Postnord is a private company [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PostNord https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PostNord
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - Jensson 3y ago
        Private "The owners of PostNord Group are the state of Sweden (60 percent) and the state of Denmark (40 percent)." It was a merger between the two countries postal services that were created over 300 years ago, it still has no private shareholders. It is still very closely tied to government rulings and laws around postal services.
        JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > still very closely tied to government rulings and laws around postal services Sure. But you can't sue Fannie Mae for denying you guarantees under the equal protection clause.
        gabeaweg 3y ago
        Is there a law saying that Fannie Mae is the only company that can do X? Because that's the case with postnord: only they can handle these plates, by law.
        JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > Is there a law saying that Fannie Mae is the only company that can do X? Guarantee mortgages with the implicit backing of the U.S.? Yes. There are loads of other examples of NGOs being granted limited monopolies. The NFL is a famous example. The MPAA and NCMEC others.
        mrmanner 3y ago
        That’s not exactly the case though - the court in the other Tesla case, against the government, has ordered the agency registering vehicles to ensure Tesla can pick up their plates directly from the manufacturer: https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/domstol-teslas-registreringsskyltar-ska-lamnas-ut--lsx0rk https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/domstol-teslas-registreri...
    - mrmanner 3y ago
      The government has an obligation to deliver services according to its laws and agreements it has entered. The current view of the courts seems to be that there’s no law clearly defining an obligation for the state so provide postal services in this specific situation. Will be interesting to see where this ends.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
mrmanner 3y ago
I think the notion of a “public utility” in the sense of “common carrier” may be more important in common law than in the Nordic tradition. If Postnord had been a government agency, results may have been different. But, and this is important, a mail carrier is not allowed to discriminate freely under Swedish law either. Labour conflicts are an exception (in many areas of law) simply because almost no one wants the government to intervene. Collective bargaining with some conflict to get the Elons of the world to play along is simply working out better.
paulddraper 3y ago
Chilling to say the least.

wolframhempel 3y ago

I'm surprised that this is something that needs to be said with caution. Does anybody want to live in a world where individual government institutions selectively shun private citizens or companies? A world where - rather than in a court of law - you're punished by the electricity company deciding to cut your power?

therouwboat 3y ago
Its not really government thats wants to block deliveries, more like government owned company is supporting workers and unions.
- whats_a_quasar 3y ago
  The government has the obligation to deliver services to residents and businesses. If some government workers refuse to do the work, the government's obligation is unchanged, and they need to find another way to fulfill it
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > government has the obligation to deliver services to residents and businesses Postnord is a private company [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PostNord https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PostNord
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - Jensson 3y ago
      Private "The owners of PostNord Group are the state of Sweden (60 percent) and the state of Denmark (40 percent)." It was a merger between the two countries postal services that were created over 300 years ago, it still has no private shareholders. It is still very closely tied to government rulings and laws around postal services.
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > still very closely tied to government rulings and laws around postal services Sure. But you can't sue Fannie Mae for denying you guarantees under the equal protection clause.
        gabeaweg 3y ago
        Is there a law saying that Fannie Mae is the only company that can do X? Because that's the case with postnord: only they can handle these plates, by law.
        JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > Is there a law saying that Fannie Mae is the only company that can do X? Guarantee mortgages with the implicit backing of the U.S.? Yes. There are loads of other examples of NGOs being granted limited monopolies. The NFL is a famous example. The MPAA and NCMEC others.
        mrmanner 3y ago
        That’s not exactly the case though - the court in the other Tesla case, against the government, has ordered the agency registering vehicles to ensure Tesla can pick up their plates directly from the manufacturer: https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/domstol-teslas-registreringsskyltar-ska-lamnas-ut--lsx0rk https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/domstol-teslas-registreri...
  - mrmanner 3y ago
    The government has an obligation to deliver services according to its laws and agreements it has entered. The current view of the courts seems to be that there’s no law clearly defining an obligation for the state so provide postal services in this specific situation. Will be interesting to see where this ends.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

mrmanner 3y ago

I think the notion of a “public utility” in the sense of “common carrier” may be more important in common law than in the Nordic tradition. If Postnord had been a government agency, results may have been different. But, and this is important, a mail carrier is not allowed to discriminate freely under Swedish law either. Labour conflicts are an exception (in many areas of law) simply because almost no one wants the government to intervene. Collective bargaining with some conflict to get the Elons of the world to play along is simply working out better.

paulddraper 3y ago

Chilling to say the least.