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Quote: Again this regulation comes from the EU so NL can't just change it This is -I think- (one of) the main reasons people voted PVV. We (the Dutch people) c

Quote: Again this regulation comes from the EU so NL can't just change it This is -I think- (one of) the main reasons people voted PVV. We (the Dutch people) can't even make their own decisions! And when things fall apart (and they are: housing, inflation, too much environmentalism, declining healthcare, etc) this is exactly what we need: make decisions to fix this. But we 'can't' because of EU. This is extremely angering and fueled the rise of PVV. And don't get me wrong: I'm one of them. And no, I'm not 'far right'. I just want to fix things. If you can't take care of yourself, you can't help others.

fzeroracer 3y ago
I would hope people would look at Brexit as a model of how well that line of thought works. Especially as we're seeing how ugly the downstream effects are years afterwards.
- FooBarWidget 3y ago
  What are the British population's attitude towards this post-Brexit reality now? Has anyone reflected on it?
  - cjrp 3y ago
    Probably a 48%/52% split between "this is exactly what we said would happen" and "we've been hamstrung by leaders not negotiating a good deal"
  - fzeroracer 3y ago
    Generally speaking, bad. Polls indicate that favorability for Brexit is probably around 35% or lower. It's been getting worse because a lot of the current crisis's the UK faces are the direct result of Brexit. Because a lot of things they took for granted in regards to stuff like the food chain or energy negotiations is something that directly impacts an individual's day to day life.
    - Anon826 3y ago
      > food chain or energy negotiations The UK along with Norway export gas to EU during summer which is stored for use in winter. UK does not have expensive gas/electricity because of Brexit, it is because of Ukraine war. The rest of EU is just as bad or worse when it comes to energy prices. The economy in Germany is worse than UK this year. The latest data regarding budget deficit from France is just as bad as UK. Not sure what food chain issues, the UK needs cheap labour to work the fields, UK people won't accept that work, so cheap labour is brought over from Asia for seasonal work. The new young generation Polish/Eastern Europe people are no longer are interested in such work either.
      - helij 3y ago
        No, I remember energy prices going up way before Ukraine war. Starting in the summer of 2021 we had multiple energy providers going bankrupt.
    - theironhammer 3y ago
      And don't forget the usefulness of the UK for USA is now hovering just above nil. From an Establishment point of view David Cameron has got to be the Biggest Donkey in years! And what do the Tories do, they reward him.
- longdudefromnl 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - fzeroracer 3y ago
    I don't understand your point. The EU and all of the stuff associated with it was part of the agreement. Brexit was the UK backing out of that agreement, which means now they need to negotiate with individual countries (and the EU as a bloc). Which means now they need to figure out how the borders are going to work, how immigration/travel is treated, how imports/exports should be treated etc. Why is it baffling that they need a deal when that's exactly what they wanted? It sounds like you want the ability for a country to leave the EU, but then not have to negotiate all of the benefits that came with being in the EU. Which, isn't exactly how it works. As a similar analogy, it would be like if one of the states here in the US successfully seceded. The US would be under no obligation to make deals with said state, they would have to negotiate as two separate countries and all of the geopolitical stuff that comes with it.
    - longdudefromnl 3y ago
      See my reply above. My whole point is that the EU was never a good plan.
  - cjrp 3y ago
    > It baffles me that there was even a need for 'a deal'. I mean: WTF. Can't we just be free?! Sure, but that freedom means not doing any trade with your neighbours, not letting people from your country visit the EU (and vice versa), not importing any energy, etc.
    - longdudefromnl 3y ago
      Why does the EU have to limit trade? Importing energy? Can't you just leave that to the countries themselves? That's my whole point: the EU was never a good plan.
      - 3y ago
- theironhammer 3y ago
  [flagged]
surgical_fire 3y ago
[flagged]
soco 3y ago
The main reason is that people don't feel like being responsible for their own solutions, just expect it from a savior - failing EU then a local one. They keep blaming whoever else while forgetting THEY are part of the EU and THEY vote for every single point on the EU action list and legislation, yes including environmentalism. And continuing to not feel responsible, they vote for the guy who takes them out of that EU responsibilities, while promising he will deliver locally on exactly the same points he failed previously to deliver on the EU level. And the voters believed him, of course, ignoring there are green and left-wing parties on local level just as well. Well, this eternal naivety some iron hand will save us, same since the dawn of history...
huijzer 3y ago
I find it a large leap to go from "broken housing, inflation, too much environmentalism, and declining healthcare" to "the EU is the problem". All these "problems", as far as they exist, exist in the whole EU as well as in the US. The cause is therefore unlikely to be the EU. A more likely cause of some problems is the lack of people in the working age, that is, a demographic problem. The US has solved (historically) and is solving this via immigration, which is exactly the thing that Wilders wants to stop. Put differently, who is gonna build the houses? Many Dutch youths have completed a bachelor or master degree, so are not interested in that line of work.

fzeroracer 3y ago

I would hope people would look at Brexit as a model of how well that line of thought works. Especially as we're seeing how ugly the downstream effects are years afterwards.

FooBarWidget 3y ago
What are the British population's attitude towards this post-Brexit reality now? Has anyone reflected on it?
- cjrp 3y ago
  Probably a 48%/52% split between "this is exactly what we said would happen" and "we've been hamstrung by leaders not negotiating a good deal"
- fzeroracer 3y ago
  Generally speaking, bad. Polls indicate that favorability for Brexit is probably around 35% or lower. It's been getting worse because a lot of the current crisis's the UK faces are the direct result of Brexit. Because a lot of things they took for granted in regards to stuff like the food chain or energy negotiations is something that directly impacts an individual's day to day life.
  - Anon826 3y ago
    > food chain or energy negotiations The UK along with Norway export gas to EU during summer which is stored for use in winter. UK does not have expensive gas/electricity because of Brexit, it is because of Ukraine war. The rest of EU is just as bad or worse when it comes to energy prices. The economy in Germany is worse than UK this year. The latest data regarding budget deficit from France is just as bad as UK. Not sure what food chain issues, the UK needs cheap labour to work the fields, UK people won't accept that work, so cheap labour is brought over from Asia for seasonal work. The new young generation Polish/Eastern Europe people are no longer are interested in such work either.
    - helij 3y ago
      No, I remember energy prices going up way before Ukraine war. Starting in the summer of 2021 we had multiple energy providers going bankrupt.
  - theironhammer 3y ago
    And don't forget the usefulness of the UK for USA is now hovering just above nil. From an Establishment point of view David Cameron has got to be the Biggest Donkey in years! And what do the Tories do, they reward him.
longdudefromnl 3y ago
[flagged]
- fzeroracer 3y ago
  I don't understand your point. The EU and all of the stuff associated with it was part of the agreement. Brexit was the UK backing out of that agreement, which means now they need to negotiate with individual countries (and the EU as a bloc). Which means now they need to figure out how the borders are going to work, how immigration/travel is treated, how imports/exports should be treated etc. Why is it baffling that they need a deal when that's exactly what they wanted? It sounds like you want the ability for a country to leave the EU, but then not have to negotiate all of the benefits that came with being in the EU. Which, isn't exactly how it works. As a similar analogy, it would be like if one of the states here in the US successfully seceded. The US would be under no obligation to make deals with said state, they would have to negotiate as two separate countries and all of the geopolitical stuff that comes with it.
  - longdudefromnl 3y ago
    See my reply above. My whole point is that the EU was never a good plan.
- cjrp 3y ago
  > It baffles me that there was even a need for 'a deal'. I mean: WTF. Can't we just be free?! Sure, but that freedom means not doing any trade with your neighbours, not letting people from your country visit the EU (and vice versa), not importing any energy, etc.
  - longdudefromnl 3y ago
    Why does the EU have to limit trade? Importing energy? Can't you just leave that to the countries themselves? That's my whole point: the EU was never a good plan.
    - 3y ago
theironhammer 3y ago
[flagged]

surgical_fire 3y ago

[flagged]

soco 3y ago

The main reason is that people don't feel like being responsible for their own solutions, just expect it from a savior - failing EU then a local one. They keep blaming whoever else while forgetting THEY are part of the EU and THEY vote for every single point on the EU action list and legislation, yes including environmentalism. And continuing to not feel responsible, they vote for the guy who takes them out of that EU responsibilities, while promising he will deliver locally on exactly the same points he failed previously to deliver on the EU level. And the voters believed him, of course, ignoring there are green and left-wing parties on local level just as well. Well, this eternal naivety some iron hand will save us, same since the dawn of history...

huijzer 3y ago

I find it a large leap to go from "broken housing, inflation, too much environmentalism, and declining healthcare" to "the EU is the problem". All these "problems", as far as they exist, exist in the whole EU as well as in the US. The cause is therefore unlikely to be the EU. A more likely cause of some problems is the lack of people in the working age, that is, a demographic problem. The US has solved (historically) and is solving this via immigration, which is exactly the thing that Wilders wants to stop. Put differently, who is gonna build the houses? Many Dutch youths have completed a bachelor or master degree, so are not interested in that line of work.