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Banned from Kickstarter for Being a Stalking Victim

• LinXitoW 14y ago
  I'd like to know what solution those that are critizing Kickstarter offer. After all, banning an IP is close to pointless.
  • DarkShikari 14y ago
    Banning IPs works well enough even for vastly bigger sites like Wikipedia. Combined with an open proxy checker, it's surprisingly effective. It's not perfect, but for ANY site of sufficient size with unmoderated user content, this problem eventually has to be dealt with. Threatening to ban the victims is not a solution. Kickstarter earns 5% from every single successful project: they can afford putting some effort into moderation and protecting their customers.
  • someone13 14y ago
    In short, you try to make it not worth the cyberstalker's (or troll, spammer, etc.) while. No matter how many protections you put up, if you make your service available to the public, people will be able to register and harass other users. So, firstly you make it harder for them to do this (to a degree). Some methods include: 1. Verified accounts - e.g. a confirmation email. 2. Social media (Twitter, Facebook, etc.) - obvious caveat being, some people don't have them, or won't want to sign up with them, etc. Then, you make it harder for the cyberstalker to determine they've been banned. "Hellbanning" is a good example of this - you ban the user, but don't notify them. Everyone else just doesn't see the comment. There are variations, but the idea is to make it harder for the person on the other end of the screen to determine when to switch accounts. Thirdly, you implement some sort of user control. For example, an "ignore" button - press this, and suddenly that user's comments aren't visible to you any more. Without notifying them, of course. Alternatively, let the project owner hellban/ignore any user from their project. And then there's the other stuff - community moderation like Reddit and HN, automatic spam filtering, disallowing registrations from throwaway emails like Mailinator, and other stuff like that. No matter what they implement, "please go away because you're being stalked" is NOT the right choice. There are technical solutions to this kind of thing, and if they're not perfect, they're certainly better than nothing. And at the end of the day, it's not about being perfect, it's about making the person that's sitting on the other end of the screen not want to spend the time to harass you, or post spam, or troll, or whatever else.
  • saraid216 14y ago
    Turning off comments would have had the same effect. You can't spam if you can't speak. A project update explaining why comments are no longer available, and emailing the project creator to start a conversation, would be good next steps. You also can't post a comment if you don't have an account, so banning the account would be a reasonable stopgap measure; this step wasn't mentioned in the blog post. If they're flooding accounts, then ban the IP. If they start switching IPs, then you can start making excuses for Kickstarter.
  • jtheory 14y ago
    It's important to remember that deterrents that can be circumvented is not the same things as pointless deterrents. That's sort of like saying that security by obscurity is pointless -- certainly it's NOT pointless, and banning IPs (like security by obscurity) will work in many cases, and should not be ignored as techniques. They aren't the solution, but can be part of a multi-pronged approach. For trolls/stalkers that know how to get past an IP ban, I do like hellbanning, accompanied with a strict written policy of "don't feed the trolls".
• alexandros 14y ago
  Kickstarter, if you care about your reputation, fix this and make sure it never happens again.
  • jasonlotito 14y ago
    Fix what? Going by what we know, someone has made a claim without anything to back it up. Should we encourage groundless accusations? I'd like to think members of HN would be a bit more intelligent about this sort of thing. Let's try to be a bit more rational about this and not just grab the torches and pitchforks.
    • SuperChihuahua 14y ago
      Read the emails inserted in the post so they are not groundless
      • jasonlotito 14y ago
        I just got an email from Rachel: Jason, Rachel Marone here. You know it's me and valid because it's in italics, and that makes it true. Anyways, everything I posted on my blog is a lie. Just wanted to say that. Honestly, Rachel Marone Well, we can go home now.
        • SideburnsOfDoom 14y ago
          It would be very odd indeed if kickstarter are in a position to deny the email quoted on Rachel's website. I.e. if it is as fake as the one above. That would be her throwing whatever reputation she has away. But I would be happier if they can confirm or deny it. No doubt they will be pressed to do so in the next few days, and a fuller picture will emerge.
          • jasonlotito 14y ago
            > That would be her throwing whatever reputation she has away. I'm not sure anything they say would make a difference. Personally, I inclined to believe what she's saying is true, but I believe there is more to the story that impacts what has been said already. Believing that, it would be unfair of me to suggest anything one way or the other.
• kefs 14y ago
  I imagine there are laws that this cyberstalker is breaking, and surely kickstarter can assist in providing the authorities with the relevant information to kickstart an investigation/tro/arrest?
  • Auguste 14y ago
    According to another article by the author in April 2011, he's breaking a number of laws: http://experimenthaywire.net/is-there-a-solution-to-cyberstalking/ http://experimenthaywire.net/is-there-a-solution-to-cybersta... I once thought I was his only target until his other victims began contacting me. He was sending us child pornography and threatening to kill us along with impersonating our dead relatives. We started a support network and put all of our case numbers together to make this a federal matter. What now? The hunt for my stalker continues yet has been unsuccessful as of now. The FBI having bigger fish to fry. The police say that he is “good at what he does.”
  • pkteison 14y ago
    I live in Atlanta, GA, USA. I had my car stolen. Police didn't investigate. It was found abandoned 2 weeks later. Police didn't do anything beyond return it. I figured you had to be shot to get some attention. Three friends have had their house robbed. No police response beyond insurance paperwork. Later, a friend of mine was shot. Police didn't investigate. He was told that he didn't die, so it wasn't murder, so they had more important things to do. Unfortunately the authorities seem to have too much to do. If it takes any effort to investigate something, it isn't going to happen.
    • protomyth 14y ago
      parts of the Twin Cities (Plymouth) are like this for any car related theft. They give you a case number over the phone and that is the end of it. Had my car broken into twice in a parking garage with cameras. No investigation even though about 20 cars were hit each time.
    • deleted 14y ago
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• Forrest7778 14y ago
  I don't think that it is necessarily fair to be extremely critical of Kickstarter. I think that we should consider the viewpoint of the respondent to her, he probably thinks that she in some way caused the stalker to spam her project. I agree 100% that this problem should be fixed - but I don't think that Kickstarter would intentionally ban her account for this situation if they had the full story, and now that it has come to light I hope that apologies are made and this situation is corrected.
  • DarkShikari 14y ago
    he probably thinks that she in some way caused the stalker to spam her project. No matter what happened here, this entire concept is horribly, horribly wrong. It's blaming the victim -- saying that it's somehow her fault for "causing" the stalker to do something... as opposed to the stalker's fault, for stalking.
    • saraid216 14y ago
      Except that Forrest's point is that they probably didn't know the spammer was a stalker. This is kind of relevant. If a random person walks up to you and asks if you've seen this person and shows you a picture, you'd probably help them out, completely unaware they're a serial killer. That doesn't make you a bad person. If Kickstarter does respond to this by maintaining their stance, then there's a huge problem. Until then, it's more a case of an incompetent employee.
      • DarkShikari 14y ago
        I don't think that changes anything? Again, replace the word "stalk" with "spam": it's the spammer's fault for spamming, not her fault for hypothetically "causing" the spammer to make the decision to spam her.
        • saraid216 14y ago
          I agree there.
• shock-value 14y ago
  This is incredibly dumb on Kickstarter's part. Why not just give project managers the ability to turn off comments if spam is getting out of control? Unless I'm missing something, comments are not an integral part of Kickstarter's function. Anyway, if comments were turned off, a potential contributor could just reach out via email or some type of private message if they had a concern about the project. And obviously banning a project and a user for "engaging with a spammer" without any warning is just appalling. "If there is any chance that Rachel will receive spam from a stalker on her project, she should not create one." This statement is just so stupid. Kickstarter should be responsible for dealing with spam if they want to be taken seriously.
  • jasonlotito 14y ago
    You seem to have a bit of information on this. Can you post the proof available besides the unverifiable blog post?
• Maxious 14y ago
  This is exactly the situation Kickstarter should be on top of. Imagine someone was going to make a hugely disruptive project and some BigCo PR firm hires a bunch of astroturfers to post 400 comments about how the project leader is a fraud. Now we know the astroturfers don't even need to ward off backers, they can just get Kickstarter to shut the project down. Megaupload song vs. UMG sockpuppets anybody?
  • jasonlotito 14y ago
    > Now we know the astroturfers don't even need to ward off backers, they can just get Kickstarter to shut the project down. We do? Again, I ask, where is the proof of what we know? What we do know is that you can make a post on a blog making claims about a popular company saying they did something bad, get it on HN, and people will start demanding said company respond and handle it without waiting for proof. Yes, the accusations are serious. Yes, if true, it should be handled, but knee-jerk reactions like this are just as bad the charges laid against KickStarter. Let's use reason and intelligence, not anger and emotion.
    • deleted 14y ago
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    • amirmc 14y ago
      I'm confused what exactly you're asking for. What kind of 'proof' would satisfy you? Screenshots of the original emails? I'm sure they could be spoofed. Screenshot of the page of comments? Same. Statements from other people who were backing her? Really, I don't understand what you're asking for. Edit: seems there's more to this story about the individual involved but that doesn't change anything about how Kickstarter reacted (assuming, of course, that the events played out as described). Edit2: Please note. Edits to the parent post now make this comment appear out of context (and therefore unhelpful). Decided to leave it up though.
      • jasonlotito 14y ago
        Something more than italicized text. Yes, screenshots of the emails, with headers would be better. Something more than a mere rant. I'm not suggesting that anything displayed would hold up in court, but all anyone here seems to care about is italicized text. Here, let me demonstrate. amirmc, The post on my website is a lie. Truly, Rachel There. Case closed. > What kind of 'proof' would satisfy you? What kind of proof would satisfy you? Italicized text? A blog post? > I don't see how anything here is particularly knee-jerk. Unsubstantiated claim is made. People here are already assuming KickStarter is guilty. Don't misrepresent what I'm saying. No where am I suggesting indisputable proof must be provided. I'm merely saying that nothing has been offered up.
• tung 14y ago
  An open memo to Hacker News: Stories like this (e.g. the GitHub and AirBnB incidents) tend to draw out this ugly, mob-like attitude from Hacker News, and I'm sure none of us want to see it happen again. Please, everybody, remember to be civil and give everybody the benefit of the doubt.
  • grimboy 14y ago
    Yes. It is however important to express outrage to make sure Kickstarter know we find this situation, if true, to be not acceptable.
    • mpclark 14y ago
      It's also important to point out that I find your wife beating unacceptable...
• vladd 14y ago
  If this is indeed true, it's outrageous: it's like having my Gmail suspended because someone sent me too much spam. And people can permanently loose their account over this? I guess they've just lost a lot of founders. Permanently.
• jtchang 14y ago
  "If there is any chance that Rachel will receive spam from a stalker on her project, she should not create one." WTF. I'm sorry guys. If there is any chance your blog post may incite trolls or spammers please refrain from making that post. This makes no sense. Better response would be to try and work with the person and figure out some kind of solution. Sure banning people who attract spam works but in the long run it will cause some serious karma fallout. This is customer service 101.
  • rms 14y ago
    Yeah. If Rachel could have raised $100,000 on Kickstarter, Kickstarter would have made thousands in fees. They have a license to print money and they will leave more and more money on the table over time if they don't add basic moderation tools like requiring comments to be approved when necessary. This looks like a case that requires customer support from someone at Kickstarter that doesn't normally work as a customer service manager. I wonder when the Kickstarter founders stopped doing their own customer support.
• siegecraft 14y ago
  I'm wondering what is the possibility that the cyberstalker is a creation of the "TRANSMEDIA ARTIST, BRAND DEVELOPER, AND FUTURIST"? It certainly fits into those categories. Just speculation.
  • jasonlotito 14y ago
    Good point. I'm still waiting for proof. In many ways, it's sad and wrong that people are calling for KickStarter to do anything before any shred of proof is provided.
    • Lazare 14y ago
      I think it's perfectly justified to call on Kickstarter to do something: namely, to reply to the allegations. If Kickstarter says "hey, this is all wrong", and Ms Marone maintains that the incident did happen, then we can start weighing proof and credibility. Alternatively, if Kickstarter says "oops, our fault, and we're changing our processes", then no proof needs to be supplied. But first, we need to know Kickstarter's side.
      • jasonlotito 14y ago
        That doesn't negate what I said, nor does it change the emotional response in comments above. People are assuming KickStarters guilt already without anything more than a blog post. Furthermore, I don't believe a company, or anyone, should be held to respond to every claim thrown at them. To prove a negative. Do not assume that I support KickStarter if the allegations are true. I just don't think it's reasonable to assume guilt and start demanding things. Let's just say that as of right now, I could say at the OP is merely doing this as a publicity stunt, and she should respond to these allegations, and this would be the exact same thing that is happening here.
        • illumen 14y ago
          The Kickstarter corporation is big enough and bad enough to stand up for itself without anyone having to attack the victim.
• jasonlotito 14y ago
  Any proof of this, or just this blog post?
• mirceagoia 14y ago
  This looks like the Airbnb PR fiasco...Kickstarter, please learn from someone else's mistake.
• djmdjm 14y ago
  If this is true, then Kickstarter just handed over editorial control to anyone who can write a spambot or with a little patience.
  • jasonlotito 14y ago
    Not true. Again, if the post is true, the requirement would be also for the person to then engage in a discussion with the spammer. We don't know the details regarding that, and will never know. If you are being harassed, report it. Not sure about you, but if I saw a spammer on my site, and saw two users discussing things back and forth behind the scenes, I might draw the conclusion they are in collusion. The OP is, after all, an artist, and might have used the spammer to help draw more attention to their situation. That's not unheard of. It's also fair to say that KickStarter would be fairly negligent if they did* read the messages between two users. So, once again, unless someone has proof of anything, it's all speculative right now. Edit: The OP's bio, it says she is a Brand Developer and runs a convention focusing on Radial Performers.
    • facorreia 14y ago
      It says a whole lot more than that: http://rachelmarone.com/sample-page/ http://rachelmarone.com/sample-page/
      • jasonlotito 14y ago
        > a narrative full of chaos, trend-starting, performance art, social commentary, and philosophical discussion Yeah, and the more I read, I realize how easily what I said above could be true. Still, I have no proof, and await it.
      • spinchange 14y ago
        I wonder if it's an artistic statement that her page touting web & counter-culture bona fides and general hot messiness still has the WP default title "sample-page." ;) In all seriousness, getting banned sucks. 'The customer is always right' isn't a bad mentality to have even for startups, and even when the customer is the product.
• shareme 14y ago
  complaints to Kickstarer can be sent if you put a dummy text in the project link question when using the contact form.. I sent mine..did you send yours or did you wimp out?
• guard-of-terra 14y ago
  You should not feed the troll. You responding to the "stalker" creates an impression that conversation is going on; and the conversation is not pretty. Instead, you should wipe and ban. Preferably done by site admins, not the victim herself. Of course Kickstarter should unban the victim but only after she agrees to never respond to the stalker on Kickstarter. Instead, report. Nobody would blame you if you don't participate in annoying behavior.
  • Lazare 14y ago
    Very true. The blog post sort of glossed over Kickstarter's claims that she was engaging with the stalker. Was that part true? If so, then WTF! It's lunacy to try and engage with someone like the stalker is claimed to be. There's no excuse for doing that, and if Marone was doing so, especially if she was warned by Kickstarter first (unclear), I can't really blame Kickstarter for kicking her off. Marone needs to completely ignore the stalker, and Kickstarter needs to just filter and ban him as best they can, and leave Marone's projects on Kickstarter alone. Based on the blog post, I'm not quite sure who is actually screwing up here.
• Monotoko 14y ago
  One question... whilst the internet has made stalking easier, can't the opposite also be true? It's much easier to shake off a stalker by using a different handle...
  • jtheory 14y ago
    I'm sure that's true for many sites -- here, for example -- but on Kickstarter I imagine they have policies about real names. They're going to need your real info anyway (to give you any money you raise), and it seems like a bad idea to let essentially anonymous people collect donations for unverifiable projects.
• drivebyacct2 14y ago
  Wow, this is beyond ironic on top of ironic on top of ironic. The worst part being the nearly top comment on HN being "don't feed the troll". I'd talk about privilege and the nice ability to "ignore" such "trolls" but I'd be wasting my breath. (which isn't to dismiss the HN community as much as it is to acknowledge that those who get it, get it, and those who don't are probably fortunate enough to not have to)
• mhitza 14y ago
  "Right" to crowdfund on Kickstarter? Artsy people and their rights. It's a service and not a right. Crowdfund somewhere else if that's so important.
• nhannah 14y ago
  I wrote to kickstarter this week to alert them of what was either a scam or an over confident 3d modeler. I and others on reddit pointed out a bunch of flaws in the cost of creating the product described at the given goal. It was a minimum of 3X off. Kickstarter wrote back to tell me in so many words that it is the users job to not be taken advantage of, all I could think is "yup you get your 10% no matter what so why care." Truely let down from a company I really liked.
• EToS 14y ago
  Only backers can post comments to kickstarter. So in theory the stalker is now traceable by their kickstarter payment if reported to the police.
• jsmcgd 14y ago
  What not allow the project owner to flag or hide comments they believe are spammy?
• ericd 14y ago
  I'm going to chalk this one up to growing pains. Dealing with spam is a really difficult problem, especially in unusual cases like this. Their response definitely wasn't great, but if it was causing them a lot of trouble to keep up with the spam on that account, this might be a drain on their likely-small team and detrimental to everyone else using the site by taking their attention. This is a startup, not an enormous company we're talking about. Maybe project moderation tools would have helped with this, but they might not want project starters to be able to silence commenters. Before you bring out your pitchforks, realize that this is a small team of real people trying to do something huge, and have a million other concerns that they have to take care of, and this is a very hard and probably relatively infrequent problem.
  • rms 14y ago
    Yup. There's something ineffably hard about customer service. Ask Craig Newmark, who still does it full time. My company's most important competitive advantage is customer service. My secret to providing superior customer service is treating my customers like they are human beings. It works because my customers are in fact human beings. I think this works because I own the company and do some of my own support. You lose a human element when your customer support starts being done by unempowered minions that don't have incentives in place to treat customers like real people.
    • ericd 14y ago
      Yeah, I still do a lot of my own customer service too, and I think it's had a big effect. It can also be really draining, though, so I understand why people want to shield themselves from it, and I can sympathize with a company that just doesn't want to deal with someone's outsized personal drama.
• ______ 14y ago
  Kickstarter is not the only player in the crowdfunding industry. You could try Rockethub as an alternative, they seem to be more accepting and might be more willing to help you.
• facorreia 14y ago
  Since HN is about entrepreneurship, I think this article raises good questions, such as, how do you deal when someone makes emotionally-loaded claims against your company in the early hours of a Saturday, including multiple submissions to Reddit using a sockpuppet account?
  • WiseWeasel 14y ago
    Call an emergency meeting with the head of your marketing dept. and start hashing out a blog post, I would assume.
    • WiseWeasel 14y ago
      Best short-term reply is probably something agreeing that the quoted response from their representative, if accurate and complete, was dangerously vague for a matter as critical as account suspension for TOS violation, which they take very seriously for important reasons, yadda yadda. This matter will be investigated, and we hope to resolve to everyone's satisfaction. Love, CEO.
• deleted 14y ago
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  • antihero 14y ago
    Some quality class A victim blaming right there. How dare she engage the troll in a manner that is not how the internet recommends. Clearly she deserves everything that happened to her. I mean yes, the way to deal with trolls is to ignore them completely and absolutely, but the punishment for not doing that shouldn't be being banned from kickstarter.
    • deleted 14y ago
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    • jasonlotito 14y ago
      While I don't condone the attitude in the OP, providing background on the "victim" in this case is appropriate. She has offered nothing to substantiate her claims. As of yet, we know nothing, and calling her a "victim" is ignoring facts.
      • Dylan16807 14y ago
        Either she is a victim or she made up the entire story along with emails. It's a waste of time to discus the latter; if it's made up kickstarter will say so. But I doubt her making up a story so easily disproved. Your other posts about italic text honestly come across to me as a strawman.
        • jasonlotito 14y ago
          > Either she is a victim or she made up the entire story along with emails. There are other possibilities as well. It's not so black and white. > Your other posts about italic text honestly come across to me as a strawman. Oh, evidence was presented? You know, using the word strawman doesn't mean it is, nor does it change what has, or has not, been presented. You can dismiss my arguments and believe what you want, however. At least I'm not out to take advantage of your gullibility.
• lawnchair_larry 14y ago
  Oh man, not this girl again. Let's just say she is known for being at the center of drama wherever she goes. She has a very long history of libel and public feuds related to her "music project." In one of many incidents, her and her mother sent DMCA takedown requests to LiveJournal based on negative information being posted by another user (completely unrelated to copyright). Please do not give her attention. At least, don't give kickstarter negative attention over her complaint. [Edit: Removed comment regarding mental illness and links to other forums]
  • rms 14y ago
    Old drama is uninteresting. What's wrong with being mentally ill? I'm definitely not neurotypical, just like half of Silicon Valley geeks. Try raising VC money in Silicon Valley without projecting the image of irrationally exuberant hypomania. http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/160/bill-nguyen-startups http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/160/bill-nguyen-startups Your comment is exactly the kind that threatens to make this thread a trainwreck. Be nice! Rachel is a very real person that can't raise money on Kickstarter because Kickstarter can't deal with one asshole posting 400 spam comments.
    • reason 14y ago
      Right, so, no counterargument or evidence being provided from Kickstarter is OK in criticizing them, and any evidence that this person may have a history of causing similar types of drama is 'uninteresting'? You're persistent in asking people to be civil towards Rachel, yet are completely fine with the bashing of Kickstarter without giving them a chance to make their case. Sounds reasonable. Guess what? Kickstarter isn't just an institution outlined by a few hundred federal documents. They're run by real people!
      • rms 14y ago
        I expect Kickstarter to have a sober, well reasoned response to this by Monday afternoon. Hopefully faster. It would have been nice if Rachel was nicer to Kickstarter in her post, but she wasn't so here we are. It's not like I like this being #1 on Hacker News. This is sort of an awful story. I would have liked to have gone to sleep by now, but respect Rachel enough and have fond enough memories of the time when Hacker News didn't suck that I wanted to try and make this comment thread something resembling rational and reasonable.
• rms 14y ago
  META OK everyone. You might have noticed that Hacker News has gone downhill lately. A common pattern is for the number one comment to be some vaguely negative and uninteresting post. In this case, it's also an inflammatory post that wrongly blames the victim. I'm friends with Rachel and the stalker dude is real. I was uselessly harassed by him because I spoke at Extreme Futurist Fest. He's real, he's crazy, and sometimes the police aren't effective. Please be nice everyone. Think seriously before you make a comment. If it's one sentence long, it's probably a useless comment. EDIT: When I made this comment, the #1 comment was unhelpful and just blamed Rachel. It has since been deleted by the poster, who perhaps reconsidered the utility of posting in this thread. Again, I don't want to be here, normally I would stay really far away from a thread like this, I just know that Rachel is a real person and I don't like to see trolls crapping all over this thread on this website that once meant so much to me.
  • tomflack 14y ago
    Please read the following in an exasperated tone of voice, because that's what I feel here. The problem is the very public trashing of kickstarter on her blog, combined with the multitude of people who have had run-ins with Rachael over the past few years calling her "crazy" etc. Allegedly the FBI are uninterested in prosecuting the cyber stalker. However since coming across this today I've seen nothing that indicates they actually exist, or if they do exist, the kind of hateful things they harass with. As far as anyone external to the situation can tell the stalker is either a figment of Rachael's imagination or someone who is going around informing people who potentially might give her money of something she doesn't want them to know. We just don't know. So in light of the very public trashing of kickstarter, it seems only fair we get to see all the evidence publicly as well - like documentary evidence of complaints to the police about the alleged stalker's behaviour. Edit: and instead of downvotes, please tell me why my train of thought on this matter is unreasonable.
    • rms 14y ago
      I believe Kickstarter has an obligation to treat Rachel like a customer. I believe they are capable of building the tool needed to deliver a good experience to customers like Rachel. I don't support the specific language Rachel might have used, but I empathize with Rachel's frustration with Kickstarter's flawed process. I met Rachel a few months ago. She seems nice. I know she has all this weird unresolved drama from the past, but I have a strict no drama allowed rule so I try not to dwell on it. I believe that people can change and become more rational and less dramatic and Rachel seems to be doing really really well, except for all these weird people from alternative music scenes that Rachel somehow made way too angry. I ran across one example of the stalker randomly on the internet yesterday, which was the stalker writing a review of Extreme Futurist Fest saying it was really bad. The review was willfully inaccurate, I was at the event, and it was really good for a new event and the attendees really impressed me with their intellectual caliber. The review was posted unsolicited on a bunch of mailing lists that didn't care, such as the list of the Mormon Transhumanist Association. No, it's utterly ridiculous to post evidence related to ongoing legal matters to the peanut gallery of the internet. Any lawyer or legal TV show will recommend against that.
• corkill 14y ago
  Concerned about women being cyber stalked....reveals full name of a woman and where she works in her post. Kickstarter seems pretty out of line, but interested to hear their side of the story.
• reason 14y ago
  Before this gets out of hand: PG, I think it'd great if you added another HN guideline that states that people should wait to hear both sides of an issue before stating their opinion, especially when it comes to these premature PR 'blunders'. Edit: Downvoted? Nice, guys.
  • nicholas_tuzzio 14y ago
    I'm not sure that makes a lot of sense. Stuff like what's mentioned in this article, weird PayPal stuff, or random Google account banning doesn't get fixed unless it gets publicity and outrage. There's good reason to believe that Kickstarter would ignore this unless/until people start to get upset about it. The whole point of this being at the top of HN is to get Kickstarter to say/do something.
• nhangen 14y ago
  Based on my experiences with Kickstarter, this is not surprising. I don't think anyone can argue that they haven't built a great product, but I've yet to be impressed by the quality of their service and find their 'community at all costs' attitude to be immature. Why can't they just IP ban the stalker? Without all of the details, it's hard to know what's going on here, but the lack of empathy in the response from KS is peculiar.
  • lucian1900 14y ago
    The stalker is likely to be using things like Tor, the blocking of which would upset significant legitimate feedback.
• deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
• ErrantX 14y ago
  The commenting here is interesting, as is the post. I have some general comments to make about cyberstalking and situations like this - but want to preface it with the disclaimer that I've never heard of Rachel before and cannot sit in any form of judgement on her. However, I was cyberstalked (and then RL stalked & harassed), so I know that it sucks and it can be dangerous. I have no idea what Rachel's stalker has done - but from the context of the blog post it appears they troll her around the net. Apparently alerting my backers about this was considered “engaging in conversation with the spammer.” This is what sprung out at me from the post, as did her post on the topic [1] From that post: (not to mention that thousands of people want him dead) And this is probably the crux of the problem. Rising to stalkers is what feeds their ego - they pummel you into submission until you react emotionally and physically to their presence. About the only way to get rid of a cyberstalker is to delete them and ignore them. I'm going to be a bit critical here; she shouldn't have "engaged him" by warning her backers. (edit: it would be nice to know the extent of engagement - often once you do the one "this is a troll" post it is too easy to be dragged into an actual conversation with them). She should have talked to Kickstarter, explained the problem and worked out a solution. She probably should have done that before opening the project - knowing what might happen. It sucks that she'd have to approach the project like that... but in my experience it's better to be pragmatic. Cyberstalkers afflict people they can "get to" emotionally - and although it is, again, unfair, about the only way to resist them is to not let it affect you. This is how I eventually got rid of my cyberstalker (who "cracked" me in the first place by sending pictures of my friends with [digital] blood splattered over the top). Before I managed this, I totally rejected the idea it would work. As to Kickstarter; I feel like they are in a catch 22 here. If they let the project sit and do their best to keep out the troll (which is difficult enough at times) it could flare up on them; Rachel's project could fail and this blog post could be titled "How Kickstarter couldn't keep my cyberstalker away", or it could attract press attention, or it could attract more trolls to Rachel. Plus then there is the human aspect - someone at Kickstarter is sat there seeing these horrid things being posted and thinking "wow, that must be really upsetting". So they delete the project - which could have been handled better, admittedly. But probably the best thing in the long run. 1. http://experimenthaywire.net/is-there-a-solution-to-cyberstalking/ http://experimenthaywire.net/is-there-a-solution-to-cybersta... EDIT: posting Daniella's full name is rather unfortunate (as she makes a point of using it, it seems).
• ck2 14y ago
  Doesn't matter what the details are: with a rule like this, 4Chan or otherwise could show up and "grief" every project on Kickstarter until they were all canceled
• shpoonj 14y ago
  Reductio ad absurdum much? Was she banned for being a stalking victim? Absolutely not. You cannot reach that conclusion from the evidence given, and, furthermore, she was told, and told us, very clearly why she was banned. It didn't say for being a stalking victim. Stop being so dramatic. There's a war on.
• floatboth 14y ago
  It reminds me of something… Remember the guy who trolled Zed Shaw on GitHub? GitHub added the ability to block users only after Zed wrote a script that crashed GitHub… Rachel should do the same to Kickstarter!
• 46Bit 14y ago
  Damned if they do, damned if they don't. It is not a perfect galaxy.
• bmelton 14y ago
  If it was me, and Kickstarter were my service, I'd have a hard time not banning someone making those claims, calling out an alleged stalker by name / email address on a public forum, and the language used. Regardless, we have a user who, relevant or not, has a history of aggravating the entirety of the communities in which she's affiliated. Whether her stories are true or not is perhaps irrelevant, but if you don't want to become a community that is simply engrossed in drama, then you have to ban this person. ====================== Edit: Removed cross-posted comment from Reddit due to questions of authenticity. Regardless, I've read enough of Haywire's comments over the years to have believed it, so I will say that remarks saying she obviously didn't write it are perhaps not so obvious. Either way, I don't mean to impugn her character except to say that wherever she goes, she seems to draw a crowd and incite riotous behavior. If Kickstarter were my service, I'd ban that behavior. If it wasn't necessarily the right thing to do by her, or by the victim, whomever we deem it to be, it is perhaps the right thing to do for the Kickstarter website and community on the whole. And please consider that aside from those taking vested interest in one side or the other, this banning makes Kickstarter a better place for those who would rather not be wrapped up in needless drama.
  • blingbling23 14y ago
    This was obviously written by a troll and not Rachel.
    • hoefler 14y ago
      Hmm, this reddit account (brokenrobot23) http://www.reddit.com/user/brokenrobot23 http://www.reddit.com/user/brokenrobot23 was created a few hours ago in support of Rachel, as was your account (blingbling23), quite the coincidence, isn't it?
      • Jimmie 14y ago
        Even so I haven't seen one link backing up the "quote" from reddit. If it was true someone would have provided some sort of verification by now.
• skeltoac 14y ago
  It's not what she was. It's what she did. "Banned from Kickstarter for violating the terms of service." There, I fixed it.
• rickmb 14y ago
  Although the main character in this drama will never be Miss Congeniality, the systematic and largely undocumented attacks on her character on HN leave a very bad taste in my mouth. This "discussion" feels like a witch hunt.
• agentgt 14y ago
  Regardless of stalking: So basically Kickstarter is saying if there is some other project you don't like on the site you can get it taken off by hiring an offshore site to spam the competitor project. They need a stackoverflow or quora like community system (I haven't used the site but I'm assuming they don't). I will say that was kind of crappy of her to post Daniella's full name. It might not be her fault. It could be the company's policy. If it was a letter from the CEO I could understand. My wife is an executive assistant and she routinely has to write letters that she doesn't necessarily agree with.
• st3fan 14y ago
  This is tough. But, I think this is no different than for example Stack Overflow where questions and comments can be edited and removed if they are not on topic, or in this case, where they do not follow the Kickstarter community guidelines. And that is exactly what happened here. Comments from the spammer/stalker are not on topic. Responses to those comments are also not on topic. Rachel had the choice to either actively remove those comments or to participate in those off-topic discussions. She did the latter while in my (no so humble opinion) removing them was really the only appropriate choice. Kickstarter is not a forum for drama, it is a place to raise money for your project. And that should be your one and only goal if you start a project there. This stupid spammer/stalker is taking away valuable time that she could also have put into marketing her project or participating in real discussions. The fact that this is someone who has stalked her for the past 10 years is very sad but it is not relevant in this discussion. She is the admin of the project and she has the powers to keep it on topic.
• angersock 14y ago
  Flagged. Look, folks, this article's sole relevance to HN is that it involves Kickstarter's banning policies. There's no coding, no real startupy stuff--just a ban on the premier crowdfunding site. Unfortunately, any meaningful discussion of said ban requires we better understand the events leading up to the ban. That in turn requires more information than we are likely to get, and certainly more unbiased information than is available. Without that information, we can't usefully discuss Kickstarter, we can't really discuss how to handle a case like this (as we wouldn't know what the case is like, exactly), and we sure as hell can't learn anything useful. With that information (let us pretend it is even attainable), all we are doing is spelunking internet drama and finding a weird edge case that frankly is most easily solved by a blanket banhammer. I appreciate that Kickstarter may be in the wrong. I also appreciate that the "victim" here apparently has several pseudonyms(annoying) and is arguably a troll/drama queen/lulzcow/whatever. The point is, we don't need to waste any time on this. This is dumb internet shit--boot it out.
• ricardobeat 14y ago
  I think this is one to be deleted. It's a trollfest all around.
• jakejake 14y ago
  Add option for project owners to approve/moderate comments. Problem solved. (the kickstarter problem at least)
• auntjanetreno 14y ago
  Rachel Marone had a restraining order on HER for stalking! and also from her own blog: > > Experiment Haywire's Blog > Sign up > Mar 22, 2009 > Prometheus Burning threatens legal action against me for "stalking" > I hate that I need to share this with everyone but I feel that my > legal safety might be in danger and am making this post to ask for > advice. I am currently scared out of my mind. > > Remember the band that called me a "lonely wannabe poser with no > musical skill" and a "hypocritical talentless hack" after staging > public drama with me for publicity? The band that harassed me to > the point where I actually had to call my sick mother for help? My > mother was conservative enough to file a DMCA charge against this > band for posting a private email of mine to the public. While I did > not want this private email posted and felt an extreme sense of > violation I strongly disapproved of my mother's actions regarding > the DMCA. (an organization which I utterly despise) In the end my > mother was in critical medical condition and was simply trying to > get this band to leave me alone- yet when she brought the DMCA into > this I was furious. > > I recently emailed the band and apologized for the actions of my > mother. I mentioned that I liked their music and that I would like > to put the past behind us. I used to be on good terms with this > band. I was a constant promoter of their music and spun them > consistently as a DJ in NYC when nobody else had heard of them. We > had mutual friends and (as far as I saw it) absolutely no reason to > perpetuate any conflict between us. I planned to support them on > tour along with Caustic and The Gothsicles in Atlanta. I figured > that it would be a great time. > > Until they told me the following on a public forum: > > "We have saved every email and message you have sent to Nikki. We > have saved every message, bulletin, etc. you have posted that > mentions us and we have saved every post you ever made on these > forums and others that mention us. Your stalker behavior is well > documented by us and by our lawyer. We have not taken the steps to > get a PFA against you as of yet, but we have more than enough > documentation to do so when we feel it necessary." -Prometheus > Burning > > Just wow. I don't appreciate people making false accusations about > me and I certainly don't appreciate being threatened with a lawyer > for a crime that I did not commit. Most importantly though: do they > have any idea what stalking actually is? As someone who has been > stalked before (and I'm not just talking about ex-boyfriends > failing to leave me alone but an actual sociopath making constant > threats against the lives of me and the people dear to me) I am > strongly offended by the way this band has used the term "stalking" > to refer to my attempt at a peaceful resolution. Stalking is not a > joke. If you have ever been stalked before you know what it's like > to beg for your stalker to leave you alone only to be told not to > further engage him. If you have ever been stalked before you know > what it's like to walk into a public place in fear of your life. If > you have ever been stalked before you know that horrible sinking > feeling you get when your stalker contacts you. It is not a > pleasant feeling. (to say the least) > > Stalking is not something to fuck around with. Accusing someone of > stalking is a lot like accusing someone of domestic abuse. If this > person didn't stalk or abuse you then you are minimizing the > struggles of thousands of individuals who are stalked and abused. > Many of these people have emailed me in tears to confide. Yet now > this band is claiming that I am stalking them. What can I do? I'm > being threatened with legal action for a crime that I did not > commit. A crime that I myself have been a target of. > > At least there is some comic relief to this story. I was trying to > understand the motivation behind all of their harassment. At first > I didn't pay any attention to the messages I was getting from > friends who were telling me this band was now ripping off my vocal > style. I honestly didn't give a fuck because I had other things to > focus on. Yet when they started threatening legal action against me > for "stalking" I went to their myspace page. Behold. > > Did they rip off my vocals? I want to say no because my delivery is > a lot more punk rock but I couldn't help noticing that the lead > singer was now using my same vocal patterns, screaming/talking > style, word emphasis, etc. in their songs. This was not what was > most surprising to me though. What was surprising to me was that > these pseudo-occult types who were avid readers of Acidexia in its > blog form and readers of Generation Hex (the Disinformation chaos > magick anthology that you can find my writing in) were using every > concept I'd written about in Acidexia and Generation Hex for their > band. > > Their "influences" are as follows: > > Self Destructive Behavior > Sensory Deprivation > Transhumanism > Chaos Magick > Traumatic Childhood Experiences > Abusive Relationships > Bi-Polar Depression > Insomnia > Aleister Crowley > Panic Disorder > Vivid Dreaming and Nightmares > Clive Barker > The Black Arts > Robert Anton Wilson > Discordia > Genesis P Orridge > Timothy Leary > HR Giger > Tentacle Rape > Smoking crack while worshiping the Dark Lord > > With the exception of the tentacle rape and smoking crack it was > pretty much a word-for-word summary of Acidexia. Their lyrics > followed a similar rip-off mentality. Mother of Abominations? I was > writing about that when I was 17. The darker side of chaos magick? > Nope, never been there before! At this point it was just getting > hilarious and I started to see what was actually going on. This > band was trying to run me out by accusing me of "stalking" them so > people wouldn't see that they'd been ripping off my ideas with > their new album. Well here's some news for the entire occult > community: their new album is everything that I wrote about in > Acidexia before I even started Experiment Haywire. > > I'm also curious how much they actually know about chaos magick. > I'm not sure wearing a TOPY necklace counts as much of anything but > I could be wrong. This band wanted attention through having drama > with someone who wasn't well liked in the industrial scene. Now > they've got it. Again. I am sure they will enjoy the occult > attention too. Quit watering down chaos magick with your tribute to > 90's industrial. It's not good for the new paradigm. > > If anyone has any legal advice for me it would be much appreciated. > I apologize for having to post this but I'm not sure what else to > do. I am seriously freaking out. > > Thanks for listening, > Rachel Haywire >
• auntjanetreno 14y ago
  she had a restraining order on HER for stalking! (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 14, @12:18PM (#39685675) and also from her own blog: > > Experiment Haywire's Blog > Sign up > Mar 22, 2009 > Prometheus Burning threatens legal action against me for "stalking" > I hate that I need to share this with everyone but I feel that my > legal safety might be in danger and am making this post to ask for > advice. I am currently scared out of my mind. > > Remember the band that called me a "lonely wannabe poser with no > musical skill" and a "hypocritical talentless hack" after staging > public drama with me for publicity? The band that harassed me to > the point where I actually had to call my sick mother for help? My > mother was conservative enough to file a DMCA charge against this > band for posting a private email of mine to the public. While I did > not want this private email posted and felt an extreme sense of > violation I strongly disapproved of my mother's actions regarding > the DMCA. (an organization which I utterly despise) In the end my > mother was in critical medical condition and was simply trying to > get this band to leave me alone- yet when she brought the DMCA into > this I was furious. > > I recently emailed the band and apologized for the actions of my > mother. I mentioned that I liked their music and that I would like > to put the past behind us. I used to be on good terms with this > band. I was a constant promoter of their music and spun them > consistently as a DJ in NYC when nobody else had heard of them. We > had mutual friends and (as far as I saw it) absolutely no reason to > perpetuate any conflict between us. I planned to support them on > tour along with Caustic and The Gothsicles in Atlanta. I figured > that it would be a great time. > > Until they told me the following on a public forum: > > "We have saved every email and message you have sent to Nikki. We > have saved every message, bulletin, etc. you have posted that > mentions us and we have saved every post you ever made on these > forums and others that mention us. Your stalker behavior is well > documented by us and by our lawyer. We have not taken the steps to > get a PFA against you as of yet, but we have more than enough > documentation to do so when we feel it necessary." -Prometheus > Burning > > Just wow. I don't appreciate people making false accusations about > me and I certainly don't appreciate being threatened with a lawyer > for a crime that I did not commit. Most importantly though: do they > have any idea what stalking actually is? As someone who has been > stalked before (and I'm not just talking about ex-boyfriends > failing to leave me alone but an actual sociopath making constant > threats against the lives of me and the people dear to me) I am > strongly offended by the way this band has used the term "stalking" > to refer to my attempt at a peaceful resolution. Stalking is not a > joke. If you have ever been stalked before you know what it's like > to beg for your stalker to leave you alone only to be told not to > further engage him. If you have ever been stalked before you know > what it's like to walk into a public place in fear of your life. If > you have ever been stalked before you know that horrible sinking > feeling you get when your stalker contacts you. It is not a > pleasant feeling. (to say the least) > > Stalking is not something to fuck around with. Accusing someone of > stalking is a lot like accusing someone of domestic abuse. If this > person didn't stalk or abuse you then you are minimizing the > struggles of thousands of individuals who are stalked and abused. > Many of these people have emailed me in tears to confide. Yet now > this band is claiming that I am stalking them. What can I do? I'm > being threatened with legal action for a crime that I did not > commit. A crime that I myself have been a target of. > > At least there is some comic relief to this story. I was trying to > understand the motivation behind all of their harassment. At first > I didn't pay any attention to the messages I was getting from > friends who were telling me this band was now ripping off my vocal > style. I honestly didn't give a fuck because I had other things to > focus on. Yet when they started threatening legal action against me > for "stalking" I went to their myspace page. Behold. > > Did they rip off my vocals? I want to say no because my delivery is > a lot more punk rock but I couldn't help noticing that the lead > singer was now using my same vocal patterns, screaming/talking > style, word emphasis, etc. in their songs. This was not what was > most surprising to me though. What was surprising to me was that > these pseudo-occult types who were avid readers of Acidexia in its > blog form and readers of Generation Hex (the Disinformation chaos > magick anthology that you can find my writing in) were using every > concept I'd written about in Acidexia and Generation Hex for their > band. > > Their "influences" are as follows: > > Self Destructive Behavior > Sensory Deprivation > Transhumanism > Chaos Magick > Traumatic Childhood Experiences > Abusive Relationships > Bi-Polar Depression > Insomnia > Aleister Crowley > Panic Disorder > Vivid Dreaming and Nightmares > Clive Barker > The Black Arts > Robert Anton Wilson > Discordia > Genesis P Orridge > Timothy Leary > HR Giger > Tentacle Rape > Smoking crack while worshiping the Dark Lord > > With the exception of the tentacle rape and smoking crack it was > pretty much a word-for-word summary of Acidexia. Their lyrics > followed a similar rip-off mentality. Mother of Abominations? I was > writing about that when I was 17. The darker side of chaos magick? > Nope, never been there before! At this point it was just getting > hilarious and I started to see what was actually going on. This > band was trying to run me out by accusing me of "stalking" them so > people wouldn't see that they'd been ripping off my ideas with > their new album. Well here's some news for the entire occult > community: their new album is everything that I wrote about in > Acidexia before I even started Experiment Haywire. > > I'm also curious how much they actually know about chaos magick. > I'm not sure wearing a TOPY necklace counts as much of anything but > I could be wrong. This band wanted attention through having drama > with someone who wasn't well liked in the industrial scene. Now > they've got it. Again. I am sure they will enjoy the occult > attention too. Quit watering down chaos magick with your tribute to > 90's industrial. It's not good for the new paradigm. > > If anyone has any legal advice for me it would be much appreciated. > I apologize for having to post this but I'm not sure what else to > do. I am seriously freaking out. > > Thanks for listening, > Rachel Haywire >
• agent409 14y ago
  I am also a victim of this guy. He harassed me off and on for years. He turned on me after I told him "no" when he asked me to do a favor for him I didn't feel comfortable doing. That was all it took to find myself on his shitlist. While we were "friends" I got to listen to him brag about all the horrible things he'd done to people, mostly women he dated, after they decided to tell him "no" or kick him out of their lives once they realized how crazy he is. He would show me how he was getting so-and-so fired from their job by spoofing emails with child pornography in them to the all@ email aliases of their employers from libraries and hacked DNS servers. He showed me how he made money selling pirated ebooks and sheet music on ebay. And he'd brag about using sockpuppets to build up fake credibility because it's all hearsay on the Internet where the credibility of consensus is only second to hard evidence. Don't fall for this guy's sockpuppet spam. This is exactly the kind of thing he was doing on Kickstarter, and has done on Reddit, Hackernews, here, Rachel's various blogs, and yes, all the way back to the days of Livejournal being the amazing mecca of social networking. His name is Jason Christopher Hughes AKA Michael Nath AKA Thylacine AKA antisense is over 40 years old. He's been at this game for a long, long time and has made social engineering an art form. Most of the posts in here that look like layers of confirmation of "facts" about Rachel are all the same person posting through TOR or I2P. If Slashdot admins were to verify the IPs of most of the other posts attacking Rachel, they'll see a wall of TOR and I2P exit nodes, just as any of us who have checked out the logs of his behavior in the past have been able to see. You let this guy brainwash you into believing all his propaganda against Rachel, and you've just weaponized yourself in his favor. Please do not. Keep an open mind. Use your critical thinking skills. Do not allow the emotional shock value of the propaganda to interfere with your thinking. I know it's hard. It's especially hard because Rachel is a very reactionary individual. She has that rockstar vibe to her, and she doesn't take crap from anyone. That makes her an easy target, clearly, because anytime the "moral high ground" seems a little shaky, it's a vulnerability in her defense against her cyberstalker. He's been stalking several of us for years. Most of us don't ever talk about him using our typical logins because he'll shit up the administration and our posts until we get banned. He's phenomenally good at turning people against his victims. Unfortunately it's hard to collect evidence against him. He only attacks maybe 10 or so people at a time. He's never going to become a priority for the FBI or local police because they either have bigger fish to fry or don't understand how to handle him in a way that his behavior can be documented. Making all of this public is a big push for all of us who he's been harassing for over a decade. We're tired of it. We want it to end. We need help. Not your personal army and all that, sure, but it would be nice if we weren't alone in trying to bring this guy down.
• bbit 14y ago
  Rachel IS the stalker. You didn't know this ? they are one of the same.
• grannygoodness 14y ago
  Ms. Jaeger: It has come to my attention that Rachel Mendelson aka "Rachel Marone" aka "Rachel Haywire" aka "Transhuman X" may be allowed to use kickstarter again only 2 years after she took $3,000 with a fraudulent kickstarter effort. People are angrily posting on this page even as of a few months ago, and she has no plans to print the CD or to make any of the charitable contribution percentage she promised from this project. Please do not allow her to make any more kickstarter efforts, and defraud more people. Here is the page and the comments from people who never got their CD from her. By kickstarter's own rules, she should be required to return the donations at this point, not start a new fraudulent kickstarter campaign. She is very likely to start a new kickstarter account called 'Rachel Marone', be aware she is abusing kickstarter for financially fraudulent purposes. Here is the link to the project that never did anything but take money: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/machinekuntrecords/sanity-is-slavery http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/machinekuntrecords/sanit... where you can see comments of complaint from its backers: "If you’re a backer of this project, please log in to read this post. 3 of 4 View Previous Comments Fb_profile_picture.thumb Erik Roy Tomren on September 26, 2011 so when is this coming out? the hard copy version, not the download. 1.thumb Cat on February 24 It's a year after this posting, almost two years after this was funded, and I have yet to receive my hard copy of this album. Very displeased. :/ Fb_profile_picture.thumb Steve Cross on March 15 Is the hard copy ever going to appear. A further update would be nice. I am not very happy!!
• grannygoodness 14y ago
  other people call Ms. Rachel "Marone" Mendelson THE STALKER! Experiment Haywire's Blog > Sign up > Mar 22, 2009 > Prometheus Burning threatens legal action against me for "stalking" > I hate that I need to share this with everyone but I feel that my > legal safety might be in danger and am making this post to ask for > advice. I am currently scared out of my mind. > > Remember the band that called me a "lonely wannabe poser with no > musical skill" and a "hypocritical talentless hack" after staging > public drama with me for publicity? The band that harassed me to > the point where I actually had to call my sick mother for help? My > mother was conservative enough to file a DMCA charge against this > band for posting a private email of mine to the public. While I did > not want this private email posted and felt an extreme sense of > violation I strongly disapproved of my mother's actions regarding > the DMCA. (an organization which I utterly despise) In the end my > mother was in critical medical condition and was simply trying to > get this band to leave me alone- yet when she brought the DMCA into > this I was furious. > > I recently emailed the band and apologized for the actions of my > mother. I mentioned that I liked their music and that I would like > to put the past behind us. I used to be on good terms with this > band. I was a constant promoter of their music and spun them > consistently as a DJ in NYC when nobody else had heard of them. We > had mutual friends and (as far as I saw it) absolutely no reason to > perpetuate any conflict between us. I planned to support them on > tour along with Caustic and The Gothsicles in Atlanta. I figured > that it would be a great time. > > Until they told me the following on a public forum: > > "We have saved every email and message you have sent to Nikki. We > have saved every message, bulletin, etc. you have posted that > mentions us and we have saved every post you ever made on these > forums and others that mention us. Your stalker behavior is well > documented by us and by our lawyer. We have not taken the steps to > get a PFA against you as of yet, but we have more than enough > documentation to do so when we feel it necessary." -Prometheus > Burning > > Just wow. I don't appreciate people making false accusations about > me and I certainly don't appreciate being threatened with a lawyer > for a crime that I did not commit. Most importantly though: do they > have any idea what stalking actually is? As someone who has been > stalked before (and I'm not just talking about ex-boyfriends > failing to leave me alone but an actual sociopath making constant > threats against the lives of me and the people dear to me) I am > strongly offended by the way this band has used the term "stalking" > to refer to my attempt at a peaceful resolution. Stalking is not a > joke. If you have ever been stalked before you know what it's like > to beg for your stalker to leave you alone only to be told not to > further engage him. If you have ever been stalked before you know > what it's like to walk into a public place in fear of your life. If > you have ever been stalked before you know that horrible sinking > feeling you get when your stalker contacts you. It is not a > pleasant feeling. (to say the least) > > Stalking is not something to fuck around with. Accusing someone of > stalking is a lot like accusing someone of domestic abuse. If this > person didn't stalk or abuse you then you are minimizing the > struggles of thousands of individuals who are stalked and abused. > Many of these people have emailed me in tears to confide. Yet now > this band is claiming that I am stalking them. What can I do? I'm > being threatened with legal action for a crime that I did not > commit. A crime that I myself have been a target of. > > At least there is some comic relief to this story. I was trying to > understand the motivation behind all of their harassment. At first > I didn't pay any attention to the messages I was getting from > friends who were telling me this band was now ripping off my vocal > style. I honestly didn't give a fuck because I had other things to > focus on. Yet when they started threatening legal action against me > for "stalking" I went to their myspace page. Behold. > > Did they rip off my vocals? I want to say no because my delivery is > a lot more punk rock but I couldn't help noticing that the lead > singer was now using my same vocal patterns, screaming/talking > style, word emphasis, etc. in their songs. This was not what was > most surprising to me though. What was surprising to me was that > these pseudo-occult types who were avid readers of Acidexia in its > blog form and readers of Generation Hex (the Disinformation chaos > magick anthology that you can find my writing in) were using every > concept I'd written about in Acidexia and Generation Hex for their > band. > > Their "influences" are as follows: > > Self Destructive Behavior > Sensory Deprivation > Transhumanism > Chaos Magick > Traumatic Childhood Experiences > Abusive Relationships > Bi-Polar Depression > Insomnia > Aleister Crowley > Panic Disorder > Vivid Dreaming and Nightmares > Clive Barker > The Black Arts > Robert Anton Wilson > Discordia > Genesis P Orridge > Timothy Leary > HR Giger > Tentacle Rape > Smoking crack while worshiping the Dark Lord > > With the exception of the tentacle rape and smoking crack it was > pretty much a word-for-word summary of Acidexia. Their lyrics > followed a similar rip-off mentality. Mother of Abominations? I was > writing about that when I was 17. The darker side of chaos magick? > Nope, never been there before! At this point it was just getting > hilarious and I started to see what was actually going on. This > band was trying to run me out by accusing me of "stalking" them so > people wouldn't see that they'd been ripping off my ideas with > their new album. Well here's some news for the entire occult > community: their new album is everything that I wrote about in > Acidexia before I even started Experiment Haywire. > > I'm also curious how much they actually know about chaos magick. > I'm not sure wearing a TOPY necklace counts as much of anything but > I could be wrong. This band wanted attention through having drama > with someone who wasn't well liked in the industrial scene. Now > they've got it. Again. I am sure they will enjoy the occult > attention too. Quit watering down chaos magick with your tribute to > 90's industrial. It's not good for the new paradigm. > > If anyone has any legal advice for me it would be much appreciated. > I apologize for having to post this but I'm not sure what else to > do. I am seriously freaking out. > > Thanks for listening, > Rachel Haywire
• stonemirror 14y ago
  I'm writing this largely in response to "jasonlotito", who appears to have a personal investment in this story being a lie. That's not the case, I'm afraid. I've been harassed for close to ten years myself by this person, who's sent numerous emails to my employers — including Apple and Palm — claiming that I was a pedophile, a Satanist, a drug dealer, a serial killer and a variety of other things. He's sent pornography to members of my family and attempted to impersonate me on Facebook as well. I had a criminal complaint against him, filed in Merced County, in March 2010. While there are "protocols" for dealing with these sorts of situations, in practice, the police rarely act on them if the situation presents any sort of an actual challenge, in my experience. They're under-staffed and ill-equipped to deal with this sort of thing. The situation is complicated by the fact that the stalker is a transient who changes his location several times a year, and who's changed his name twice in the past eight years. He uses TOR, public WiFi access, a raft of Hushmail accounts, and other means to make himself more difficult to track down. I have first-hand knowledge of no fewer than twenty other people who've also been harassed by this person. He's been doing this sort of thing back into the 90s, originally on USENET. He's since moved on to Facebook and Google+, and now Kickstarter. I maintained a web site at extinct-marsupial.org for a number of years documenting this stalker's activities. I finally took it down last year after my ISP became unwilling to deal with the multiple bogus DMCA complaints that this person supplied them with on a monthly basis. I'm on Facebook, Google+, Twitter and other places; my personal web site is at shugendo.org. I've been a professional technologist for three decades, and I can confirm that the person harassing Rachel exists, has been harassing her for a number of years, and that law enforcement has proven completely incapable of doing anything about it, for her, for me, or for the other people that this stalker has victimized and continues to victimize.
• stonemirror 14y ago
  Rachel Marone's stalker (and mine) makes a personal appearance in the comments section of this article: http://www.dailydot.com/business/kickstarter-cyberstalker-victim-rachel-marone/ http://www.dailydot.com/business/kickstarter-cyberstalker-vi...
  • grannygoodness 14y ago
    David "Lefty" Schlesinger aka "stonemirror" has one hell of a long history of being offensive and harassing to women. Here one of those women, Kathy Sutphen, speaks out. She was stalked so viciously by Lefty that she suffered traumatic effects. “I’d save the ASCII totem for an occasion just prior to your court )) )date, in the event that ever actually comes to pass: you’ll need all )) )the good luck you can scrape together. )) ) )) )– )) )Lefty Redux [gYon-Pa] (lefty apple.com), (dns netcom.com) )) )C:.M:.C:., D:.O:.D:. )) )) I was utterly shocked by the vicious animosity of these messages. In all )) honesty, I have find them to be quite intimidating. They have affected my )) sleep and my appetite. I do not know to what lengths this man will go to )) for retaliation. I hope that his anger is limited to email and I have not )) exhibited foolish bravado in posting these. However, I will not participate )) in his abuse by continuing to allow him to send me these types of messages )) privately with the thought that his threats of extortion will keep me from )) sharing. Every abuser needs to be drug into a public forum posthaste. It is )) only in a public arena that this type of behavior can be halted. )) )) I hope that others of you that have been subjected to this type of abuse )) will ignore his threats and make his behavior public. )) )) Kathy Sutphen” http://www.waldorfcritics.org/active/archives/WCA9707.html http://www.waldorfcritics.org/active/archives/WCA9707.html
  • grannygoodness 14y ago
    you are the "SERIAL HARASSER WHO DEFAMES FREE SOFTWARE LUMINARIES" ! http://techrights.org/2010/02/19/defamed-by-access-employee/ http://techrights.org/2010/02/19/defamed-by-access-employee/ Summary: Serial harasser of Free software luminaries may be put on their blacklists, but the verbal abuse continues. It is understandable that some people wish to defend a pro-software patents strategy, GPL disdain, and companies like Apple and Novell. This is not an excuse for making defamatory claims and saying things like “Richard “My holy duty is to rape women who’ve never used EMACS” Stallman“. There is no rape, virgins can also be male, and it was so obviously a joke. This perp (David Schlesinger aka 'stonemirror') who cried in front of Open Source visionary Bruce Perens because he didn't join his anti-Stallman crusade is just trying to tarnish the GNU brand which is almost synonymous with Richard Stallman and this is just another example of the FSF smears that we wrote about last week.