4 ms·

Why throw out the baby with the bath water, just because the rich will live longer, no one should. This is the feeling I get everytime I see a comment that it w

by Tr03P 3y ago

Why throw out the baby with the bath water, just because the rich will live longer, no one should. This is the feeling I get everytime I see a comment that it will be only for the rich and powerful. I don't think that will be the case, as there will be a gold rush once the possibility is proven and visible, everyone will try to get it, even the naysayers. It will be more like the crash of prices from the Spanish mines in south America.

caesil 3y ago
Think of all the mundane technology we use every single day that was, when it was first introduced, priced for the rich and powerful. And then imagine if we'd used that as a reason not to produce it.
- altairTF 3y ago
  And there is a lot of this sentiment around, specially with young people
- tuatoru 3y ago
  Yeah. I wish I had saved the quote, but someone said something along the lines of "the rich get new technologies when they are expensive and sucky; the rest of us get them when the kinks have been ironed out." If you're worried about the rich getting things unfairly, focus on tax policy and closing all the thousands of loopholes. That's a lifetime's work.
johnnyworker 3y ago
> This is the feeling I get everytime I see a comment that it will be only for the rich and powerful. That's not a "feeling", that are words you put into my mouth, to then call it a "feeling" of yours. And that's the top voted reply. Just lol.
jodrellblank 3y ago
> "I don't think that will be the case, as there will be a gold rush once the possibility is proven and visible, everyone will try to get it, even the naysayers." Maybe; instead when this happens, e.g. hairloss and finasteride, I look at people desperately trying to fight aging and stay young forever and then replacing their worry about hairloss with worry about post-finasteride[1] depression and sexual side effects. Or the people who are obsessed with nootropics ('smart drugs') who are in a hyper-competitive world I don't want to be in at all. Or the people who slather vitamin A creams on their skin to try and look younger who may give themselves retinol burn[2] and Vitamin A, E supplements to look younger which may[3] gives bone pain, liver damage, birth defects, increased risk of fractures, skin irritation, increased risk of prostate cancer. [1] https://www.bmj.com/content/366/bmj.l5047 https://www.bmj.com/content/366/bmj.l5047 [2] https://www.healthline.com/health/retinol-burn https://www.healthline.com/health/retinol-burn [3] https://www.nationalgeographic.com/premium/article/how-these-2-vitamin-supplements-could-do-more-harm-than-good- https://www.nationalgeographic.com/premium/article/how-these... - "For context, consider that a single 3-ounce serving of pan-fried beef liver [alone] contains [over 2x the recommended daily upper limit of Vitamin A]."
- insanitybit 3y ago
  Is your point that supplements have side effects? I don't think that's surprising to anyone at all.
  - jodrellblank 3y ago
    My point is that "once the possibility is proven and visible, everyone will try to get it, even the naysayers" is wrong. I could plausibly benefit from Finasteride, I'm not rushing for it even though I think it works. We can also see[1] which says "poor diet is recognized as the leading cause of death and disability in the United States, and the World Health Organization predicts that by 2020, two thirds of disease worldwide will exist because of a poor lifestyle.11-13 A large body of consistent evidence suggests eating a healthy diet can prevent, delay, or even reverse CVD, hypertension, hyperlipidemia, diabetes, and certain cancers.14-19 The effect of such intake is rapid and profound." - yet people aren't rushing for healthy diets and exercise, are they? And I think your claim is wrong; a lot of people pop vitamin supplements like candy expecting that they are harmless and would be surprised to find they are capable of causing harm; anecdotally I have read of people saying exactly that, which is enough to disprove "wouldn't be surprising to anyone at all". [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6506974/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6506974/
    - insanitybit 3y ago
      > I'm not rushing for it even though I think it works Because of the side effects, right? > - yet people aren't rushing for healthy diets and exercise, are they? Because that implies a lifestyle change. I think the assumption here is that this would be a treatment or a pill. > And I think your claim is wrong; a lot of people pop vitamin supplements like candy expecting that they are harmless and would be surprised to find they are capable of causing harm; I don't think that most people will be surprised to hear that taking any pill can have negative effects, though I do think that lots of people may be surprised by the dose at which those effects are seen, but there will always be outliers, of course, who may think that eating an entire carton of gummy vitamins is no big deal. But, I don't think that is really relevant, although I'm not sure what point you're trying to make still. I think you're trying to say that some people won't rush to take this pill because it may have unintended side effects?

by Tr03P 3y ago

caesil 3y ago

Think of all the mundane technology we use every single day that was, when it was first introduced, priced for the rich and powerful. And then imagine if we'd used that as a reason not to produce it.

altairTF 3y ago
And there is a lot of this sentiment around, specially with young people
tuatoru 3y ago
Yeah. I wish I had saved the quote, but someone said something along the lines of "the rich get new technologies when they are expensive and sucky; the rest of us get them when the kinks have been ironed out." If you're worried about the rich getting things unfairly, focus on tax policy and closing all the thousands of loopholes. That's a lifetime's work.

johnnyworker 3y ago

> This is the feeling I get everytime I see a comment that it will be only for the rich and powerful. That's not a "feeling", that are words you put into my mouth, to then call it a "feeling" of yours. And that's the top voted reply. Just lol.

jodrellblank 3y ago

> "I don't think that will be the case, as there will be a gold rush once the possibility is proven and visible, everyone will try to get it, even the naysayers." Maybe; instead when this happens, e.g. hairloss and finasteride, I look at people desperately trying to fight aging and stay young forever and then replacing their worry about hairloss with worry about post-finasteride[1] depression and sexual side effects. Or the people who are obsessed with nootropics ('smart drugs') who are in a hyper-competitive world I don't want to be in at all. Or the people who slather vitamin A creams on their skin to try and look younger who may give themselves retinol burn[2] and Vitamin A, E supplements to look younger which may[3] gives bone pain, liver damage, birth defects, increased risk of fractures, skin irritation, increased risk of prostate cancer. [1] https://www.bmj.com/content/366/bmj.l5047 https://www.bmj.com/content/366/bmj.l5047 [2] https://www.healthline.com/health/retinol-burn https://www.healthline.com/health/retinol-burn [3] https://www.nationalgeographic.com/premium/article/how-these-2-vitamin-supplements-could-do-more-harm-than-good- https://www.nationalgeographic.com/premium/article/how-these... - "For context, consider that a single 3-ounce serving of pan-fried beef liver [alone] contains [over 2x the recommended daily upper limit of Vitamin A]."

insanitybit 3y ago
Is your point that supplements have side effects? I don't think that's surprising to anyone at all.
- jodrellblank 3y ago
  My point is that "once the possibility is proven and visible, everyone will try to get it, even the naysayers" is wrong. I could plausibly benefit from Finasteride, I'm not rushing for it even though I think it works. We can also see[1] which says "poor diet is recognized as the leading cause of death and disability in the United States, and the World Health Organization predicts that by 2020, two thirds of disease worldwide will exist because of a poor lifestyle.11-13 A large body of consistent evidence suggests eating a healthy diet can prevent, delay, or even reverse CVD, hypertension, hyperlipidemia, diabetes, and certain cancers.14-19 The effect of such intake is rapid and profound." - yet people aren't rushing for healthy diets and exercise, are they? And I think your claim is wrong; a lot of people pop vitamin supplements like candy expecting that they are harmless and would be surprised to find they are capable of causing harm; anecdotally I have read of people saying exactly that, which is enough to disprove "wouldn't be surprising to anyone at all". [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6506974/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6506974/
  - insanitybit 3y ago
    > I'm not rushing for it even though I think it works Because of the side effects, right? > - yet people aren't rushing for healthy diets and exercise, are they? Because that implies a lifestyle change. I think the assumption here is that this would be a treatment or a pill. > And I think your claim is wrong; a lot of people pop vitamin supplements like candy expecting that they are harmless and would be surprised to find they are capable of causing harm; I don't think that most people will be surprised to hear that taking any pill can have negative effects, though I do think that lots of people may be surprised by the dose at which those effects are seen, but there will always be outliers, of course, who may think that eating an entire carton of gummy vitamins is no big deal. But, I don't think that is really relevant, although I'm not sure what point you're trying to make still. I think you're trying to say that some people won't rush to take this pill because it may have unintended side effects?