8 ms·

What did they do?

by elkos 3y ago

What did they do?

robomartin 3y ago
https://static.texastribune.org/media/files/3428af84caea0c21b620498b06a7414e/X%20lawsuit%20media%20matters.pdf https://static.texastribune.org/media/files/3428af84caea0c21...
- two_handfuls 3y ago
  Analysis of the lawsuit: https://www.aol.com/legal-critics-blast-elon-musk-202350508.html?ref=biztoc.com https://www.aol.com/legal-critics-blast-elon-musk-202350508.... Key paragraph: “X does not appear to dispute the fact that X has monetized extremist content or that the brands’ ads ran beside it.”
  - robomartin 3y ago
    That's not the key at all. The allegation (until proven in court to the required legal standard) is that Media Matters worked hard to manipulate X to fit a narrative. They created a false narrative and drove it hard in a campaign designed to cause financial and reputation harm to both X and Musk. Some of what is being alleged is the equivalent of taking something that is several standard deviations from the mean and claiming this is the mean. In paragraph 35: "35. Media Matters also omitted and made no attempt to clarify the rarity of these pairings. The representation put forth by Media Matters constituted 0.0000009090909 percent of impressions served on the day in question. Most or all of these pairings were not seen by literally anyone besides Media Matters’ own manipulated account, and no authentic user of the platform has been confirmed to have seen any of these pairings." They created an account to follow extremists and brands. They manipulated this account until they got screenshots they could publish to attack X and Musk. This, if proven to be the case in a court of law, should be criminal if it isn't. Look at it a different way: Would you be OK with someone doing that to you? Making a concerted and calculated effort to damage your career and person with false and deeply distorted allegations? Would that be OK? I hope you say "No, it would not". And that's the point here. Society would absolutely crumble under the pressure of such things if permitted to permeate our culture and information sources without consequence. Nothing good comes from anyone, individual or companies, behaving in this manner. As I have stated multiple times now, these are allegations. They have to pass the test of the legal system. That's the correct venue until we cease to be civilized. Should they allegations prove to be true, Media Matters, the people responsible and external actors and organizations that participated in any way or jumped on the bandwagon to multiply the damage should pay dearly for their actions. Society should not tolerate such behavior. It is destructive in the worst possible way. And, at the limit, it can only lead to violence and the destruction of the tenuous social fabric that holds populations together. Let the courts look at this and decide. That's the way a civilized society behaves. Legal critics don't matter. If it were up to them the entire Biden and Trump (and other) families would be rotting in jail right now. That's how much their "analysis" matters. Zero.
    - rsynnott 3y ago
      > Legal critics don't matter. The opinions of legal experts on the law are probably rather more relevant than those of either (a) random HN posters or (b) Elon Musk, who has demonstrated prior confusion about this.
      - robomartin 3y ago
        Having been involved in a few legal battles over the decades I can tell you, without a shadow of a doubt, that nobody on the outside of a trial has a clue or a valid opinion at all. That includes me, of course. This is why courts and lawsuits are about. The evidence has to be presented with sufficient detail and clarity for a legal conclusion to be reached. Nothing else anyone says matters at all. My comments on this are very simple: If anyone is going to comment, at least read the court filing. Understand that groups like Media Matters and the media have been in the business of search-and-destroy-at-all-costs for years. These are not wholesome organizations. They are violent organizations, with their violence taking the form of the indiscriminate destruction of anyone who does not align with a certain narrative. Am I biased? Of course! Because I know exactly what the blind support of these kinds of nefarious actors can do to a society and the nation. Just go down the list of Latin American (LATAM) countries for examples of just how ugly things can get. I know the HN crowd can be deeply ideologically aligned with these leftist organizations. So be it. If nobody here presents contrast there's a zero percent probability of anyone actually thinking and realizing that what has been pounded into their brains is a ridiculous destructive fantasy. Do we have to get to total societal destruction and 40% unemployment before people wake up and understand? I hope not. Coming back from that is almost impossible. Again, look at LATAM. I have always referred to LATAM as "the time machine for the US". Everything that is happening here has already happened in LATAM a million different ways as far back as decades ago. We know, without any doubt, how this ends. And it isn't good. So, no, Media Matters, their inner and outer circles are not organizations dedicated to improving society. Not even close. They exist to destroy whatever and whoever they tag as the opposition. In some ways this is analog to the idea of finding obscure bugs in software. One approach is to do the work, explore very rare corner cases, privately contact the company to make them aware of it so they can fix it before it becomes public knowledge. That is constructive and useful for society. The other approach is to immediately take the information public and use it to try to destroy the company, product and people as well as their reputation to the extent possible. That is not useful to society at all. We need to stop this nonsense or we are going to become victims of our own stupidity. I don't know how else to say it. You have in Elon Musk who has been dedicated to advancing society with everything he touches. Instead of embracing his work and helping push it forward, you have political/ideological activists and organizations dedicated to nothing less than destroying him and his work. How the hell is this good for society? What is left if we don't have anyone like him left in this society? I can name a few countries where this is the case. It ain't pretty. Wake the fuck up!

What did they do?

by elkos 3y ago

What did they do?

https://static.texastribune.org/media/files/3428af84caea0c21b620498b06a7414e/X%20lawsuit%20media%20matters.pdf https://static.texastribune.org/media/files/3428af84caea0c21...

two_handfuls 3y ago
Analysis of the lawsuit: https://www.aol.com/legal-critics-blast-elon-musk-202350508.html?ref=biztoc.com https://www.aol.com/legal-critics-blast-elon-musk-202350508.... Key paragraph: “X does not appear to dispute the fact that X has monetized extremist content or that the brands’ ads ran beside it.”
- robomartin 3y ago
  That's not the key at all. The allegation (until proven in court to the required legal standard) is that Media Matters worked hard to manipulate X to fit a narrative. They created a false narrative and drove it hard in a campaign designed to cause financial and reputation harm to both X and Musk. Some of what is being alleged is the equivalent of taking something that is several standard deviations from the mean and claiming this is the mean. In paragraph 35: "35. Media Matters also omitted and made no attempt to clarify the rarity of these pairings. The representation put forth by Media Matters constituted 0.0000009090909 percent of impressions served on the day in question. Most or all of these pairings were not seen by literally anyone besides Media Matters’ own manipulated account, and no authentic user of the platform has been confirmed to have seen any of these pairings." They created an account to follow extremists and brands. They manipulated this account until they got screenshots they could publish to attack X and Musk. This, if proven to be the case in a court of law, should be criminal if it isn't. Look at it a different way: Would you be OK with someone doing that to you? Making a concerted and calculated effort to damage your career and person with false and deeply distorted allegations? Would that be OK? I hope you say "No, it would not". And that's the point here. Society would absolutely crumble under the pressure of such things if permitted to permeate our culture and information sources without consequence. Nothing good comes from anyone, individual or companies, behaving in this manner. As I have stated multiple times now, these are allegations. They have to pass the test of the legal system. That's the correct venue until we cease to be civilized. Should they allegations prove to be true, Media Matters, the people responsible and external actors and organizations that participated in any way or jumped on the bandwagon to multiply the damage should pay dearly for their actions. Society should not tolerate such behavior. It is destructive in the worst possible way. And, at the limit, it can only lead to violence and the destruction of the tenuous social fabric that holds populations together. Let the courts look at this and decide. That's the way a civilized society behaves. Legal critics don't matter. If it were up to them the entire Biden and Trump (and other) families would be rotting in jail right now. That's how much their "analysis" matters. Zero.
  - rsynnott 3y ago
    > Legal critics don't matter. The opinions of legal experts on the law are probably rather more relevant than those of either (a) random HN posters or (b) Elon Musk, who has demonstrated prior confusion about this.
    - robomartin 3y ago
      Having been involved in a few legal battles over the decades I can tell you, without a shadow of a doubt, that nobody on the outside of a trial has a clue or a valid opinion at all. That includes me, of course. This is why courts and lawsuits are about. The evidence has to be presented with sufficient detail and clarity for a legal conclusion to be reached. Nothing else anyone says matters at all. My comments on this are very simple: If anyone is going to comment, at least read the court filing. Understand that groups like Media Matters and the media have been in the business of search-and-destroy-at-all-costs for years. These are not wholesome organizations. They are violent organizations, with their violence taking the form of the indiscriminate destruction of anyone who does not align with a certain narrative. Am I biased? Of course! Because I know exactly what the blind support of these kinds of nefarious actors can do to a society and the nation. Just go down the list of Latin American (LATAM) countries for examples of just how ugly things can get. I know the HN crowd can be deeply ideologically aligned with these leftist organizations. So be it. If nobody here presents contrast there's a zero percent probability of anyone actually thinking and realizing that what has been pounded into their brains is a ridiculous destructive fantasy. Do we have to get to total societal destruction and 40% unemployment before people wake up and understand? I hope not. Coming back from that is almost impossible. Again, look at LATAM. I have always referred to LATAM as "the time machine for the US". Everything that is happening here has already happened in LATAM a million different ways as far back as decades ago. We know, without any doubt, how this ends. And it isn't good. So, no, Media Matters, their inner and outer circles are not organizations dedicated to improving society. Not even close. They exist to destroy whatever and whoever they tag as the opposition. In some ways this is analog to the idea of finding obscure bugs in software. One approach is to do the work, explore very rare corner cases, privately contact the company to make them aware of it so they can fix it before it becomes public knowledge. That is constructive and useful for society. The other approach is to immediately take the information public and use it to try to destroy the company, product and people as well as their reputation to the extent possible. That is not useful to society at all. We need to stop this nonsense or we are going to become victims of our own stupidity. I don't know how else to say it. You have in Elon Musk who has been dedicated to advancing society with everything he touches. Instead of embracing his work and helping push it forward, you have political/ideological activists and organizations dedicated to nothing less than destroying him and his work. How the hell is this good for society? What is left if we don't have anyone like him left in this society? I can name a few countries where this is the case. It ain't pretty. Wake the fuck up!