7 ms·

Haha not a word about social issues or crime. I wonder why.

by KBme 3y ago

exabrial 3y ago
precisely. > It used to be that the best city for technologists was the Bay Area.... ...but Covid reordered the world. The Bay Area governments and surrounding State have/has essentially unlimited budgets. They have no political opponents. The actual problem is the ideas, and I wish they would stay in California where they belong.
- reducesuffering 3y ago
  Most of the Bay Area is safer from crime than 90% of the country, probably safer than where you are. > stay in California where they belong Out of the US biggest 100 cities, CA also has 3/7 top safest from violent crime. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b... > The actual problem is the ideas No problem with the ideas that cause Alaska, Tennessee, Arkansas, Arizona, Louisiana, Missouri, South Carolina, South Dakota, Oklahoma, Alabama, and Texas to have higher violent crime rates than CA as a whole? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_violent_crime_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ...
  - JonChesterfield 3y ago
    San Francisco coming 4th most dangerous in your table might be correlated with a reluctance to go there.
    - reducesuffering 3y ago
      For one, 4th is looking at property crime, not "most dangerous," where SF is #37 for violent crime. Yes, SF attracts the nexus of crime around the BART stops, but that also pulls it from most of the surrounding area, which OP was talking Bay Area as a whole. Anecdotally, I've been here 30 years and never victim of a "dangerous" crime. Fat chance you move to Mountain View to work at Google and anything happens to you. The only place in CA someone reading a "Best City for Techies" will encounter crime is Market St. and Tenderloin in SF. The rest of it in deep Oakland, Stockton, Modesto, San Bernardino, and pockets of LA, they will never end up.
      - dkhenry 3y ago
        I am pretty sure most people who work for Google and live in the south bay could tell you stories of having their car windows smashed in, and I do mean most. I think it is about 100% of the googlers and ex-googlers I know have had that experience. Also as of two years ago, the chances that your Catalytic converter was stolen unless you parked your car in your garage was getting near 50% as well. I suppose if you limit crime to just "dangerous" maybe it comes out on top, but I would prefer to be somewhere that I don't have to worry about 50,000 of my neighbors OD'ing on the street every year.
        robertlagrant 3y ago
        Interestingly, this is a similar experience I have from friends from when I lived in Johannesburg. Smash and grabs and car/parts thefts were very common.
        Apocryphon 3y ago
        South Bay petty crime and homelessness has unfortunately arisen but that is a real alarmist way to speak about the most mundane stretch of suburban sprawl outside of LA County.
        astrange 3y ago
        Are you confusing South Bay with SF? Nothing ever happens in South Bay. Nothing good and nothing bad.
      - KBme 3y ago
        > affluent neighbourhoods have lower (violent) crime rates but surrounding areas are literal sh*tholes way to sell the city Also, these statistics measure crime according to the laws, their enforcement and reporting. SF has lax laws, lax enforcement and underreporting.
      - myvoiceismypass 3y ago
        Unfortunately, you do not have to go to "deep Oakland" to encounter violent crime these days. It is kind of everywhere in Oakland now.
    - bdcravens 3y ago
      That's non-violent crime; most of this is attributed to larceny. SF is number 37 in violent crime.
  - jahewson 3y ago
    Pay no attention to Oakland…
    - kstrauser 3y ago
      I grew up in a small Midwest city that I thought was pretty nice and safe, but is a statistically very dangerous place to live. I knew of Oakland’s rep before I moved here, and was underwhelmed with the reality of it. I’ve never once felt as unsafe in any part of Oakland as I did at the Taco Bell on S. National in Springfield, Missouri on any given Friday night.
      - hotnfresh 3y ago
        People have these ideas because “most dangerous city” lists usually mean most dangerous big cities, and leave implicit that more-rural areas are far safer. If you start analyzing and carving things up other ways, it quickly becomes clear that the “small town and small city America is safer than big city America” thing that a lot of people assume is true, isn’t. Muddled at best, and bordering on simply being backwards. This makes perfect sense when you consider that violent and property crime correlate with poverty, and small towns and cities tend to be much poorer than big cities. Add in that density effects mean that you might see more crime in a big city while in fact being safer than in a small city, and the picture starts to come together.
        astrange 3y ago
        Rural and suburban areas are more dangerous than cities because you're in or near cars more often. That's really all that matters. In particular, NYC is by far the safest place in the country.
  - rngname22 3y ago
    Your link uses FBI Uniform Crime Rates. Some facts about FBI UCR: 1) The FBI web site recommends against using its data for ranking because these rankings lead to simplistic and/or incomplete analyses that often create misleading perceptions adversely affecting cities and counties, along with their residents https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/caution-against-ranking https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-... 2) they are submitted voluntarily by police departments 3) many police departments don't even participate: "This year about 7,000 police agencies, covering about 35% of the U.S. population, were missing." https://www.themarshallproject.org/2022/10/08/the-problem-with-the-fbi-s-missing-crime-data https://www.themarshallproject.org/2022/10/08/the-problem-wi... 4) From your own Wiki link: "Often, one obtains very different results depending on whether crime rates are measured for the city jurisdiction or the metropolitan area." 5) The BJS reports that 45% of violent crimes and 36% of property crimes go unreported to police. And I don't know that we can assume the rates of not reporting crimes are consistent across metros. https://www.waldenu.edu/online-masters-programs/ms-in-criminal-justice/resource/criminal-justice-update-five-facts-about-crime-in-the-us https://www.waldenu.edu/online-masters-programs/ms-in-crimin...
  - exabrial 3y ago
    > Most of the Bay Area is safer from crime than 90% of the country That's pretty hilarious. In the 48 hours I was there, I had a homeless exposed his dong to me, another offered to sell me cocaine, then while I was eating at a nice Thai Restaurant, a lady in her underwear smashed the front window of the restaurant with a fire extinguisher. Literally none of these things have ever happened to me anywhere else in the world in 39 years, except for the 48 hours I was in the Bay Area. Now please tell me about Selection Bias next.
    - Kephael 3y ago
      It's the same deal in Seattle, I don't even bother reporting this stuff to the police. Elsewhere, the police would respond and it would show in statistics.
finite_depth 3y ago
[dead]
barryrandall 3y ago
Prevailing political sentiment is an important social issue and it was addressed in the article.
- KBme 3y ago
  Maybe, but homelessness/poverty and education quality not, for example. These would be important for people who plan to have a family. I guess the social side can be deduced easily from the fact that these places are single-party cryptodictatorships, though.

Haha not a word about social issues or crime. I wonder why.

by KBme 3y ago

Haha not a word about social issues or crime. I wonder why.

precisely. > It used to be that the best city for technologists was the Bay Area.... ...but Covid reordered the world. The Bay Area governments and surrounding State have/has essentially unlimited budgets. They have no political opponents. The actual problem is the ideas, and I wish they would stay in California where they belong.

reducesuffering 3y ago
Most of the Bay Area is safer from crime than 90% of the country, probably safer than where you are. > stay in California where they belong Out of the US biggest 100 cities, CA also has 3/7 top safest from violent crime. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b... > The actual problem is the ideas No problem with the ideas that cause Alaska, Tennessee, Arkansas, Arizona, Louisiana, Missouri, South Carolina, South Dakota, Oklahoma, Alabama, and Texas to have higher violent crime rates than CA as a whole? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_violent_crime_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ...
- JonChesterfield 3y ago
  San Francisco coming 4th most dangerous in your table might be correlated with a reluctance to go there.
  - reducesuffering 3y ago
    For one, 4th is looking at property crime, not "most dangerous," where SF is #37 for violent crime. Yes, SF attracts the nexus of crime around the BART stops, but that also pulls it from most of the surrounding area, which OP was talking Bay Area as a whole. Anecdotally, I've been here 30 years and never victim of a "dangerous" crime. Fat chance you move to Mountain View to work at Google and anything happens to you. The only place in CA someone reading a "Best City for Techies" will encounter crime is Market St. and Tenderloin in SF. The rest of it in deep Oakland, Stockton, Modesto, San Bernardino, and pockets of LA, they will never end up.
    - dkhenry 3y ago
      I am pretty sure most people who work for Google and live in the south bay could tell you stories of having their car windows smashed in, and I do mean most. I think it is about 100% of the googlers and ex-googlers I know have had that experience. Also as of two years ago, the chances that your Catalytic converter was stolen unless you parked your car in your garage was getting near 50% as well. I suppose if you limit crime to just "dangerous" maybe it comes out on top, but I would prefer to be somewhere that I don't have to worry about 50,000 of my neighbors OD'ing on the street every year.
      - robertlagrant 3y ago
        Interestingly, this is a similar experience I have from friends from when I lived in Johannesburg. Smash and grabs and car/parts thefts were very common.
      - Apocryphon 3y ago
        South Bay petty crime and homelessness has unfortunately arisen but that is a real alarmist way to speak about the most mundane stretch of suburban sprawl outside of LA County.
      - astrange 3y ago
        Are you confusing South Bay with SF? Nothing ever happens in South Bay. Nothing good and nothing bad.
    - KBme 3y ago
      > affluent neighbourhoods have lower (violent) crime rates but surrounding areas are literal sh*tholes way to sell the city Also, these statistics measure crime according to the laws, their enforcement and reporting. SF has lax laws, lax enforcement and underreporting.
    - myvoiceismypass 3y ago
      Unfortunately, you do not have to go to "deep Oakland" to encounter violent crime these days. It is kind of everywhere in Oakland now.
  - bdcravens 3y ago
    That's non-violent crime; most of this is attributed to larceny. SF is number 37 in violent crime.
- jahewson 3y ago
  Pay no attention to Oakland…
  - kstrauser 3y ago
    I grew up in a small Midwest city that I thought was pretty nice and safe, but is a statistically very dangerous place to live. I knew of Oakland’s rep before I moved here, and was underwhelmed with the reality of it. I’ve never once felt as unsafe in any part of Oakland as I did at the Taco Bell on S. National in Springfield, Missouri on any given Friday night.
    - hotnfresh 3y ago
      People have these ideas because “most dangerous city” lists usually mean most dangerous big cities, and leave implicit that more-rural areas are far safer. If you start analyzing and carving things up other ways, it quickly becomes clear that the “small town and small city America is safer than big city America” thing that a lot of people assume is true, isn’t. Muddled at best, and bordering on simply being backwards. This makes perfect sense when you consider that violent and property crime correlate with poverty, and small towns and cities tend to be much poorer than big cities. Add in that density effects mean that you might see more crime in a big city while in fact being safer than in a small city, and the picture starts to come together.
      - astrange 3y ago
        Rural and suburban areas are more dangerous than cities because you're in or near cars more often. That's really all that matters. In particular, NYC is by far the safest place in the country.
- rngname22 3y ago
  Your link uses FBI Uniform Crime Rates. Some facts about FBI UCR: 1) The FBI web site recommends against using its data for ranking because these rankings lead to simplistic and/or incomplete analyses that often create misleading perceptions adversely affecting cities and counties, along with their residents https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/caution-against-ranking https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-... 2) they are submitted voluntarily by police departments 3) many police departments don't even participate: "This year about 7,000 police agencies, covering about 35% of the U.S. population, were missing." https://www.themarshallproject.org/2022/10/08/the-problem-with-the-fbi-s-missing-crime-data https://www.themarshallproject.org/2022/10/08/the-problem-wi... 4) From your own Wiki link: "Often, one obtains very different results depending on whether crime rates are measured for the city jurisdiction or the metropolitan area." 5) The BJS reports that 45% of violent crimes and 36% of property crimes go unreported to police. And I don't know that we can assume the rates of not reporting crimes are consistent across metros. https://www.waldenu.edu/online-masters-programs/ms-in-criminal-justice/resource/criminal-justice-update-five-facts-about-crime-in-the-us https://www.waldenu.edu/online-masters-programs/ms-in-crimin...
- exabrial 3y ago
  > Most of the Bay Area is safer from crime than 90% of the country That's pretty hilarious. In the 48 hours I was there, I had a homeless exposed his dong to me, another offered to sell me cocaine, then while I was eating at a nice Thai Restaurant, a lady in her underwear smashed the front window of the restaurant with a fire extinguisher. Literally none of these things have ever happened to me anywhere else in the world in 39 years, except for the 48 hours I was in the Bay Area. Now please tell me about Selection Bias next.
  - Kephael 3y ago
    It's the same deal in Seattle, I don't even bother reporting this stuff to the police. Elsewhere, the police would respond and it would show in statistics.

finite_depth 3y ago

[dead]

barryrandall 3y ago

Prevailing political sentiment is an important social issue and it was addressed in the article.

KBme 3y ago
Maybe, but homelessness/poverty and education quality not, for example. These would be important for people who plan to have a family. I guess the social side can be deduced easily from the fact that these places are single-party cryptodictatorships, though.