8 ms·
not everyone has the ability to quit their jobs on the spot for morality sake. there is no social safety net in america. people can't risk losing their jobs and
by hsavit1 3y ago
not everyone has the ability to quit their jobs on the spot for morality sake. there is no social safety net in america. people can't risk losing their jobs and health insurance
- JohnFen 3y agoSure they can. People lose their jobs without notice every day and while it's often a horrible situation, it's one that people can and do recover from. But I'm not even really arguing that people who do bad things because they want to avoid harmful repercussions must choose differently. I'm arguing that people who do that are choosing to do something unethical, and we are what we do. Perhaps the ethical tradeoff makes some practical sense for some -- but it's still an ethical tradeoff.
- hanzmanner 3y agoAre you talking specifically about engineering? If you have strong ethical disagreements with your current employer, start prepping for interviews. Start early. Invest 2-3 months. Starts interviewing. Sign an offer. Then quit. I don't think anyone in this thread is suggesting a sole family provider should just quit on an arbitrary day and lose their health insurance.
- tekla 3y agoThen you aren't an engineer. You are just a cog.
- pierat 3y agoUnless you are independently wealthy, you are indeed a cog. Maybe you're a well paid cog. But you're still a cog. Even doctors have to work for a living. That makes them a cog too. Nothing wrong with seeing where you fit, and securing your future with strategic choices to get away from toxic shit. But you're still a cog. And you can be an engineer and still be a cog. The other name for a "cog" is a proletariat.
- zmgsabst 3y agoEngineers are bourgeoisie.
- hsavit1 3y agoSome engineers and part of the professional managerial class. Many (if not most) engineers are proletarians
- zmgsabst 3y agoEngineers are not part of the proletariat, at all. There are no working class engineers. However, many members of the bourgeoisie and petite bourgeoisie LARP as proletariat — particularly academics. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/02/middle-class-income-in-major-us-cities.html#:~:text=Pew%20defines%20%E2%80%9Cmiddle%20class%E2%80%9D%20as,technically%20in%20the%20middle%20class https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/02/middle-class-income-in-major....
- danbolt 3y agoI was under the impression that what defines the proletariat is someone whose income primarily comes from their labour, rather than capital. In this case, plenty of academics and engineers certainly qualify if they need to work to live. I think the parent commenter is using the term in that context, rather than if they work a blue-collar job or if they’re middle class.
- zmgsabst 3y agoThe distinction has never been “work to live”, but working class versus professional class. Also, academics and engineers don’t derive their income from labor, but from connections, bureaucratic status, and knowledge asymmetry. That’s why they’re part of the bourgeoisie and not proletariat. Eg, lawyers were never part of the proletariat — yet they also need to work to survive.
- 3y ago