5 ms·

I've always been a fan of this. If RoundUp is so safe, why don't the execs and lawyers and shills all douse themselves in it? It'd prove their alleged point ag

I've always been a fan of this. If RoundUp is so safe, why don't the execs and lawyers and shills all douse themselves in it? It'd prove their alleged point against the guy who got horrible lesions and cancer all over his body after being exposed to it in a work accident.

deleted 3y ago
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gruez 3y ago
But they never claimed that it was "so safe" that you can ingest or douse yourself in it? It says so right in the MSDS. https://labelsds.com/images/user_uploads/Roundup%20Pro%20Conc%20SDS%208-12-20.pdf https://labelsds.com/images/user_uploads/Roundup%20Pro%20Con...
- heavyset_go 3y ago
  That's what they're subjecting farm workers to.
  - gruez 3y ago
    Isn't that the farm's problem? At least in theory workers are supposed to be protected with PPE and/or proper procedures. Blaming them for the failure of that feels like blaming chainsaw manufacturers for causing hearing loss.
    - bastawhiz 3y ago
      If the chainsaw company executives have to repeatedly try to convince the government that their product is actually safe despite being excessively loud over and over again, but they won't actually put themselves in a situation where they themselves wield their own chainsaws because of safety concerns, then yeah, it's on them. If you're in the US, you've probably consumed glyphosate today. Farm workers wearing PPE will be exposed to elevated levels of glyphosate no matter how hard they try because humans aren't perfect. If execs won't put themselves in the same position as the people handling their products, they're evil hypocritical bastards.
      - gruez 3y ago
        > If the chainsaw company executives have to repeatedly try to convince the government that their product is actually safe despite being excessively loud We're going in circles here. As mentioned earlier the MSDS provided by bayer clearly says you shouldn't get it on your skin or ingest it. Therefore it's pretty clear that glyphosate isn't "safe", at least in those circumstances. >Farm workers wearing PPE will be exposed to elevated levels of glyphosate no matter how hard they try because humans aren't perfect. You can make the same argument for chainsaws. Earmuffs aren't comfortable to wear in 100 degree weather. Should they be liable for hearing loss for the same reason?
        saiya-jin 3y ago
        Earmuffs in 100 may not be the most comfortable thing in the world, but its still perfectly fine to use for hours, you just sweat a bit more on ears and around. Also, if you want rest just stop cutting and put them down. I've seen forest workers use them all the time in summer heat. Now we switch to same conditions but requirement is to wear pretty good 'airtight' face mask. Most people would be nearing collapse after some time when doing some hard work, I know I had some proper hard time during covid when trying some rather low efforts. Those 2 examples are really not that comparable. Also, you very conveniently ignore the fact that chemical crap poisons everything, and ends up in my and your and my kid's food chain. Some chainsaw 20 km in the forest is really no such concern. I can go on and on like this. Really, not comparable examples at all. Yeah, fuck Bayer and all those involved, I am normally peaceful person but for those involved while knowing, or at least strongly suspecting the truth I wish only horrible things in their lives.
    - heavyset_go 3y ago
      They know how it's being used, spend millions on downplaying and denying its harms and lobby the government to loosen safety restrictions on its use. This is the same excuse drug dealers use when selling substances they know are being abused and harm people. Following your logic, the MSDS sheets for heroin and fentanyl make it clear on how they should be dealt with safely.
    - justinclift 3y ago
      > Isn't that the farm's problem? From a legal perspective, maybe. From the farm workers perspective... it sounds they'd better try avoiding the situation anyway. --- An analogy is an accident between a semi trailer and a motorbike. Even if the semi trailer was the cause of the accident (legally), it's still a really bad idea for the motorbike to not try avoiding it. That way leads to a squished motorbike rider. :(
- deleted 3y ago
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- deleted 3y ago
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- jona-f 3y ago
  "Lobbyist Claims Monsanto's Roundup Is Safe To Drink, Freaks Out When Offered A Glass" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovKw6YjqSfM&t=10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovKw6YjqSfM&t=10
  - aesh2Xa1 3y ago
    That was incredible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Moore_(consultant) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Moore_(consultant) During an interview by French investigative journalist Paul Moreira, which was first broadcast on French television station Canal+, Moore was asked about the safety of the herbicide glyphosate. Moore told Moreira that one "could drink a whole quart of it" without any harm. When Moore was challenged to drink a glass of the weedkiller, he refused, saying "I'm not an idiot" and "I'm not stupid" before ending the interview. Monsanto, the primary producers of glyphosate weedkillers under the Roundup brand, denied claims that Moore is a paid lobbyist for their company.[71][72][73] The interview came shortly after the release of a World Health Organization (WHO) report adding glyphosate to a list of probable carcinogens.[74][75]
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
jzebedee 3y ago
Even that stunt might not be enough for a sufficiently evil shill, e.g. Thomas Midgley Jr. He famously did a similar move at a press conference for tetraethyllead (TEL), where he washed his hands in the stuff to prove its safety: > On October 30, 1924, Midgley participated in a press conference to demonstrate the apparent safety of TEL, in which he poured TEL over his hands, placed a bottle of the chemical under his nose, and inhaled its vapor for 60 seconds, declaring that he could do this every day without succumbing to any problems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley_Jr.#cite_ref-Secret_7-2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley_Jr.#cite_ref-Se... It probably won't shock you that he frequently suffered from lead poisoning.
- ars 3y ago
  Why you call him an evil shill? It sounds like he actually believed it. It's not evil to be wrong.
  - j-bos 3y ago
    There was evidence of the negative health effects from his own research.
  - flagrant_taco 3y ago
    I'm not sure how that line could be drawn. If a person does something that most would consider evil, but does it for reasons they honestly believed in which side is right? Some of the Nazis may have honestly believed that Jewish people were the cause of Germany's economic problems, but I don't think many would claim they were anything less than evil.
    - notrlyskeptik 3y ago
      [dead]
    - 6510 3y ago
      The line isn't drawn at the quality of their indoctrination or the evil doers world view. We judge by our own indoctrination and world view. We for example don't do trial by ethnicity. We don't give a rats ass if the people who caused the German economic problems were Jewish.
refurb 3y ago
You believe table salt is safe? Ok! I want you to eat 500 g of salt and we'll see just how safe it is!

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

gruez 3y ago

But they never claimed that it was "so safe" that you can ingest or douse yourself in it? It says so right in the MSDS. https://labelsds.com/images/user_uploads/Roundup%20Pro%20Conc%20SDS%208-12-20.pdf https://labelsds.com/images/user_uploads/Roundup%20Pro%20Con...

heavyset_go 3y ago
That's what they're subjecting farm workers to.
- gruez 3y ago
  Isn't that the farm's problem? At least in theory workers are supposed to be protected with PPE and/or proper procedures. Blaming them for the failure of that feels like blaming chainsaw manufacturers for causing hearing loss.
  - bastawhiz 3y ago
    If the chainsaw company executives have to repeatedly try to convince the government that their product is actually safe despite being excessively loud over and over again, but they won't actually put themselves in a situation where they themselves wield their own chainsaws because of safety concerns, then yeah, it's on them. If you're in the US, you've probably consumed glyphosate today. Farm workers wearing PPE will be exposed to elevated levels of glyphosate no matter how hard they try because humans aren't perfect. If execs won't put themselves in the same position as the people handling their products, they're evil hypocritical bastards.
    - gruez 3y ago
      > If the chainsaw company executives have to repeatedly try to convince the government that their product is actually safe despite being excessively loud We're going in circles here. As mentioned earlier the MSDS provided by bayer clearly says you shouldn't get it on your skin or ingest it. Therefore it's pretty clear that glyphosate isn't "safe", at least in those circumstances. >Farm workers wearing PPE will be exposed to elevated levels of glyphosate no matter how hard they try because humans aren't perfect. You can make the same argument for chainsaws. Earmuffs aren't comfortable to wear in 100 degree weather. Should they be liable for hearing loss for the same reason?
      - saiya-jin 3y ago
        Earmuffs in 100 may not be the most comfortable thing in the world, but its still perfectly fine to use for hours, you just sweat a bit more on ears and around. Also, if you want rest just stop cutting and put them down. I've seen forest workers use them all the time in summer heat. Now we switch to same conditions but requirement is to wear pretty good 'airtight' face mask. Most people would be nearing collapse after some time when doing some hard work, I know I had some proper hard time during covid when trying some rather low efforts. Those 2 examples are really not that comparable. Also, you very conveniently ignore the fact that chemical crap poisons everything, and ends up in my and your and my kid's food chain. Some chainsaw 20 km in the forest is really no such concern. I can go on and on like this. Really, not comparable examples at all. Yeah, fuck Bayer and all those involved, I am normally peaceful person but for those involved while knowing, or at least strongly suspecting the truth I wish only horrible things in their lives.
  - heavyset_go 3y ago
    They know how it's being used, spend millions on downplaying and denying its harms and lobby the government to loosen safety restrictions on its use. This is the same excuse drug dealers use when selling substances they know are being abused and harm people. Following your logic, the MSDS sheets for heroin and fentanyl make it clear on how they should be dealt with safely.
  - justinclift 3y ago
    > Isn't that the farm's problem? From a legal perspective, maybe. From the farm workers perspective... it sounds they'd better try avoiding the situation anyway. --- An analogy is an accident between a semi trailer and a motorbike. Even if the semi trailer was the cause of the accident (legally), it's still a really bad idea for the motorbike to not try avoiding it. That way leads to a squished motorbike rider. :(
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jona-f 3y ago
"Lobbyist Claims Monsanto's Roundup Is Safe To Drink, Freaks Out When Offered A Glass" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovKw6YjqSfM&t=10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovKw6YjqSfM&t=10
- aesh2Xa1 3y ago
  That was incredible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Moore_(consultant) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Moore_(consultant) During an interview by French investigative journalist Paul Moreira, which was first broadcast on French television station Canal+, Moore was asked about the safety of the herbicide glyphosate. Moore told Moreira that one "could drink a whole quart of it" without any harm. When Moore was challenged to drink a glass of the weedkiller, he refused, saying "I'm not an idiot" and "I'm not stupid" before ending the interview. Monsanto, the primary producers of glyphosate weedkillers under the Roundup brand, denied claims that Moore is a paid lobbyist for their company.[71][72][73] The interview came shortly after the release of a World Health Organization (WHO) report adding glyphosate to a list of probable carcinogens.[74][75]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

jzebedee 3y ago

Even that stunt might not be enough for a sufficiently evil shill, e.g. Thomas Midgley Jr. He famously did a similar move at a press conference for tetraethyllead (TEL), where he washed his hands in the stuff to prove its safety: > On October 30, 1924, Midgley participated in a press conference to demonstrate the apparent safety of TEL, in which he poured TEL over his hands, placed a bottle of the chemical under his nose, and inhaled its vapor for 60 seconds, declaring that he could do this every day without succumbing to any problems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley_Jr.#cite_ref-Secret_7-2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley_Jr.#cite_ref-Se... It probably won't shock you that he frequently suffered from lead poisoning.

ars 3y ago
Why you call him an evil shill? It sounds like he actually believed it. It's not evil to be wrong.
- j-bos 3y ago
  There was evidence of the negative health effects from his own research.
- flagrant_taco 3y ago
  I'm not sure how that line could be drawn. If a person does something that most would consider evil, but does it for reasons they honestly believed in which side is right? Some of the Nazis may have honestly believed that Jewish people were the cause of Germany's economic problems, but I don't think many would claim they were anything less than evil.
  - notrlyskeptik 3y ago
    [dead]
  - 6510 3y ago
    The line isn't drawn at the quality of their indoctrination or the evil doers world view. We judge by our own indoctrination and world view. We for example don't do trial by ethnicity. We don't give a rats ass if the people who caused the German economic problems were Jewish.

refurb 3y ago

You believe table salt is safe? Ok! I want you to eat 500 g of salt and we'll see just how safe it is!