7 ms·

please don't. wildly inefficient

Lerc 3y ago
So is using sed to play chess. This exists as a proof on concept not as a suggestion that it is a practical solution. Since you chose to post this request here and not on the thread about playing chess with sed, I suspect you are imagining some form of real world effect from the energy expenditure from people doing this. I think that lacks a sense of perspective, a better approach would be to consider the change in state of the world after an extended period of expected use of the approach. Considering the considerable lack of practicality of calculating in Bitcoin (and indeed playing chess in SED) the expected use is negligible and consequently the impact would also be negligible.
gumby 3y ago
What’s the harm?
- gotimo 3y ago
  immense amounts of wasted energy
  - ursuscamp 3y ago
    That’s a matter of opinion. Many happen to believe it is not wasted.
    - dleeftink 3y ago
      But many do. Who is right? [0]: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921344921005103 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S092134492... [1]: https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/14/14/4254 https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/14/14/4254 [2]: https://www.cell.com/fulltext/S2542-4351(19)30255-7 https://www.cell.com/fulltext/S2542-4351(19)30255-7
      - toenail 3y ago
        Bitcoin uses less than 0.1% of the world's energy. Any time somebody says things like "uses more energy than a country" they are either dishonest or malicious and clearly have an agenda. I'd recommend to try to stick facts, not opinions.
        ninepoints 3y ago
        Less than .1 % for embarrassingly little volume
        toenail 3y ago
        Less than .1% to secure more than 500 billion of value. Bitcoin energy usage is primarily to secure the network, not for transaction "volume", but that's a common misconception for people who have yet to learn about bitcoin.
        ninepoints 3y ago
        You're splitting hairs. If the energy is needed to stave away a 51% attack, that's the energy needed to support the single digit tps monstrosity you have. As for the 500 billion in value, I doubt if everyone liquidated their positions today it'd amount to a figure remotely close to that.
        kristianp 3y ago
        > I doubt if everyone liquidated their positions today it'd amount to a figure remotely close to that. The same goes for any stock in the S&P 500. Market Cap is just a number.
        toenail 3y ago
        If once in bitcoin's history there is 51% attack, all energy that was ever used was used to prevent this one attack. Wow, you totally convinced me.
        3y ago
  - toenail 3y ago
    Bitcoin uses a ridiculously small amount of energy to begin with.
    - arcticbull 3y ago
      Just one country, to achieve the computational and storage power of a raspberry pi. The mental gymnastics continue to beggar belief. I wish people would just be honest and say yes, it's absurd and wasteful, but I think it'll make me rich so I don't care.
      - toenail 3y ago
        Every industry on this planet that is worth doing uses "more energy than one country". Anybody who parrots this "argument" is either stupid or malicious.
        plastic3169 3y ago
        I find it interesting to travel in such country. Take a train and when it approaches a city look at all the buildings passing by. All the lights in the windows that show that people live there. The eletric heating of many of those homes. All the electricity any of the people living there ever spends. All the factories, farms you see on the way. Massive greenhouses. Server farms. All those electric cars stuck in traffic. The train goes for hours and hours. Everything you see combined uses less electricity than bitcoin. Millions of people can run their lives and build all their businesses using less energy. The scale is mind boggling.
        toenail 3y ago
        Like I said, the same can be said about any industry on this planet. That this fact is mind-boggling for you shows that you haven't really ever thought about energy consumption. That you see this as a weakness of bitcoin shows that you approach bitcoin with the preconception that it is useless, and that you try to find facts that suit your view.
ursuscamp 3y ago
This improves the efficiency of Bitcoin.

Lerc 3y ago

So is using sed to play chess. This exists as a proof on concept not as a suggestion that it is a practical solution. Since you chose to post this request here and not on the thread about playing chess with sed, I suspect you are imagining some form of real world effect from the energy expenditure from people doing this. I think that lacks a sense of perspective, a better approach would be to consider the change in state of the world after an extended period of expected use of the approach. Considering the considerable lack of practicality of calculating in Bitcoin (and indeed playing chess in SED) the expected use is negligible and consequently the impact would also be negligible.

gumby 3y ago

What’s the harm?

gotimo 3y ago
immense amounts of wasted energy
- ursuscamp 3y ago
  That’s a matter of opinion. Many happen to believe it is not wasted.
  - dleeftink 3y ago
    But many do. Who is right? [0]: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921344921005103 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S092134492... [1]: https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/14/14/4254 https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/14/14/4254 [2]: https://www.cell.com/fulltext/S2542-4351(19)30255-7 https://www.cell.com/fulltext/S2542-4351(19)30255-7
    - toenail 3y ago
      Bitcoin uses less than 0.1% of the world's energy. Any time somebody says things like "uses more energy than a country" they are either dishonest or malicious and clearly have an agenda. I'd recommend to try to stick facts, not opinions.
      - ninepoints 3y ago
        Less than .1 % for embarrassingly little volume
        toenail 3y ago
        Less than .1% to secure more than 500 billion of value. Bitcoin energy usage is primarily to secure the network, not for transaction "volume", but that's a common misconception for people who have yet to learn about bitcoin.
        ninepoints 3y ago
        You're splitting hairs. If the energy is needed to stave away a 51% attack, that's the energy needed to support the single digit tps monstrosity you have. As for the 500 billion in value, I doubt if everyone liquidated their positions today it'd amount to a figure remotely close to that.
        kristianp 3y ago
        > I doubt if everyone liquidated their positions today it'd amount to a figure remotely close to that. The same goes for any stock in the S&P 500. Market Cap is just a number.
        toenail 3y ago
        If once in bitcoin's history there is 51% attack, all energy that was ever used was used to prevent this one attack. Wow, you totally convinced me.
      - 3y ago
- toenail 3y ago
  Bitcoin uses a ridiculously small amount of energy to begin with.
  - arcticbull 3y ago
    Just one country, to achieve the computational and storage power of a raspberry pi. The mental gymnastics continue to beggar belief. I wish people would just be honest and say yes, it's absurd and wasteful, but I think it'll make me rich so I don't care.
    - toenail 3y ago
      Every industry on this planet that is worth doing uses "more energy than one country". Anybody who parrots this "argument" is either stupid or malicious.
      - plastic3169 3y ago
        I find it interesting to travel in such country. Take a train and when it approaches a city look at all the buildings passing by. All the lights in the windows that show that people live there. The eletric heating of many of those homes. All the electricity any of the people living there ever spends. All the factories, farms you see on the way. Massive greenhouses. Server farms. All those electric cars stuck in traffic. The train goes for hours and hours. Everything you see combined uses less electricity than bitcoin. Millions of people can run their lives and build all their businesses using less energy. The scale is mind boggling.
        toenail 3y ago
        Like I said, the same can be said about any industry on this planet. That this fact is mind-boggling for you shows that you haven't really ever thought about energy consumption. That you see this as a weakness of bitcoin shows that you approach bitcoin with the preconception that it is useless, and that you try to find facts that suit your view.

ursuscamp 3y ago

This improves the efficiency of Bitcoin.