7 ms·

I feel like if US companies are proven to off shore jobs they should take a massive tax hit the same year. Like you are required to pay 5 years worth of the sal

I feel like if US companies are proven to off shore jobs they should take a massive tax hit the same year. Like you are required to pay 5 years worth of the salary of the job you off shored into unemployment or retraining funds.

passion__desire 3y ago
If there are global markets for products, they should be global markets for employment.
- elashri 3y ago
  There is no global tax system so you don't have this effect you think you have.
- creato 3y ago
  The global market for tech products isn’t that much lower friction than tech employment. India has a lot of tariffs. China has the great firewall and the “local partner” shakedown. US has export controls of many high tech products.
  - passion__desire 3y ago
    Tariffs may reduce volume slightly but not margins. I doubt Apple is selling it's devices at a loss.
coldpie 3y ago
I think you'd get the same result with a lot less overhead by just increasing corporate taxes a fraction of a percent (or just enforcing our current tax laws better) and making vocational training schools tuition-free.
- zitterbewegung 3y ago
  Assuming they pay their taxes and this is how we have to enforce it by a lawsuit which costs the government more. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/11/irs-says-microsoft-owes-an-additional-29-billion-in-back-taxes.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/11/irs-says-microsoft-owes-an-a... If the corporate tax would increase then it might be cheaper to litigate.
dougSF70 3y ago
Microsoft about to swallow a $25bn+ tax hit.
- mpclark 3y ago
  Ow! That's nearly half an Activision...
syntaxing 3y ago
Funny you say that because this was part of the NAFTA agreement (I know this agreement doesn’t apply to India). I knew engineers that went to college with sponsorship from this agreement when they were laid off as technicians from off shoring due to the agreement. This absolutely should be the status quo.
WalterBright 3y ago
Protectionism doesn't make an economy more prosperous. Quite the reverse, it makes an economy uncompetitive.
- cryptonector 3y ago
  I used to think so, before I understood that we live in a mercantilist world economy. I still think protectionism would be bad in a less distorted economy, and I think it's bad in as-distorted an economy as ours (because people who are subjected to pressure are more likely to be adaptive and dynamic), but it's harder to make the case, don't you think?
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    Protectionism means you're protecting inefficient industries. In a global marketplace, this means industries in other countries will out-compete yours.
    - coolspot 3y ago
      Usually they out-compete yours because they burn coal and you have to buy solar, they commute in packed trains while you drive tesla to work, they live in tiny apartments, while your house has a backyard and frontyard.
      - WalterBright 3y ago
        Protectionism is not a fix for comparative advantage. Regardless of the motives for protectionism, it will make your economy less competitive and less prosperous.
        Apocryphon 3y ago
        The East Asian Tigers being a major counterexample: https://hir.harvard.edu/the-east-asian-miracle-where-did-adam-smith-go-wrong/ https://hir.harvard.edu/the-east-asian-miracle-where-did-ada... It's basically Ha-Joon Chang's whole deal- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Samaritans:_The_Myth_of_Free_Trade_and_the_Secret_History_of_Capitalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Samaritans:_The_Myth_of_Fr... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/hajoon-chang-protectionism-the-truth-is-on-a-10-bill-5334137.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/hajoon-c...
lotsofpulp 3y ago
Should California impose massive tax hits to businesses that move jobs to other states?
kozikow 3y ago
That would be very easy to circumvent. You can describe effectively the same software engineering job in a way that sounds completely different. "close a project" of the old team, etc.
bee_rider 3y ago
Companies outsource because they think they can find better workers in another country (where better is some combination of better skills, lower compensation, or harder working). Fair enough. We should welcome that kind of competition, it makes everyone better when we fairly and do our best. They also outsource because they think they can take advantage of lax labor and/or environmental regulation in other countries. We should impose tariffs to level the playing field when countries don’t have these sort of regulations. Competition keeps us honest and innovating, it shouldn’t be avoided, it just needs to be fair and non-exploitive.

passion__desire 3y ago

If there are global markets for products, they should be global markets for employment.

elashri 3y ago
There is no global tax system so you don't have this effect you think you have.
creato 3y ago
The global market for tech products isn’t that much lower friction than tech employment. India has a lot of tariffs. China has the great firewall and the “local partner” shakedown. US has export controls of many high tech products.
- passion__desire 3y ago
  Tariffs may reduce volume slightly but not margins. I doubt Apple is selling it's devices at a loss.

coldpie 3y ago

I think you'd get the same result with a lot less overhead by just increasing corporate taxes a fraction of a percent (or just enforcing our current tax laws better) and making vocational training schools tuition-free.

zitterbewegung 3y ago
Assuming they pay their taxes and this is how we have to enforce it by a lawsuit which costs the government more. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/11/irs-says-microsoft-owes-an-additional-29-billion-in-back-taxes.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/11/irs-says-microsoft-owes-an-a... If the corporate tax would increase then it might be cheaper to litigate.

dougSF70 3y ago

Microsoft about to swallow a $25bn+ tax hit.

mpclark 3y ago
Ow! That's nearly half an Activision...

syntaxing 3y ago

Funny you say that because this was part of the NAFTA agreement (I know this agreement doesn’t apply to India). I knew engineers that went to college with sponsorship from this agreement when they were laid off as technicians from off shoring due to the agreement. This absolutely should be the status quo.

WalterBright 3y ago

Protectionism doesn't make an economy more prosperous. Quite the reverse, it makes an economy uncompetitive.

cryptonector 3y ago
I used to think so, before I understood that we live in a mercantilist world economy. I still think protectionism would be bad in a less distorted economy, and I think it's bad in as-distorted an economy as ours (because people who are subjected to pressure are more likely to be adaptive and dynamic), but it's harder to make the case, don't you think?
- WalterBright 3y ago
  Protectionism means you're protecting inefficient industries. In a global marketplace, this means industries in other countries will out-compete yours.
  - coolspot 3y ago
    Usually they out-compete yours because they burn coal and you have to buy solar, they commute in packed trains while you drive tesla to work, they live in tiny apartments, while your house has a backyard and frontyard.
    - WalterBright 3y ago
      Protectionism is not a fix for comparative advantage. Regardless of the motives for protectionism, it will make your economy less competitive and less prosperous.
      - Apocryphon 3y ago
        The East Asian Tigers being a major counterexample: https://hir.harvard.edu/the-east-asian-miracle-where-did-adam-smith-go-wrong/ https://hir.harvard.edu/the-east-asian-miracle-where-did-ada... It's basically Ha-Joon Chang's whole deal- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Samaritans:_The_Myth_of_Free_Trade_and_the_Secret_History_of_Capitalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Samaritans:_The_Myth_of_Fr... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/hajoon-chang-protectionism-the-truth-is-on-a-10-bill-5334137.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/hajoon-c...

lotsofpulp 3y ago

Should California impose massive tax hits to businesses that move jobs to other states?

kozikow 3y ago

That would be very easy to circumvent. You can describe effectively the same software engineering job in a way that sounds completely different. "close a project" of the old team, etc.

bee_rider 3y ago

Companies outsource because they think they can find better workers in another country (where better is some combination of better skills, lower compensation, or harder working). Fair enough. We should welcome that kind of competition, it makes everyone better when we fairly and do our best. They also outsource because they think they can take advantage of lax labor and/or environmental regulation in other countries. We should impose tariffs to level the playing field when countries don’t have these sort of regulations. Competition keeps us honest and innovating, it shouldn’t be avoided, it just needs to be fair and non-exploitive.