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Sounds like a smart way to build a high quality dataset of captioned ASL videos while also providing a great service. Guessing in 2 years they’ll have a decent

Sounds like a smart way to build a high quality dataset of captioned ASL videos while also providing a great service. Guessing in 2 years they’ll have a decent ML model.

akira2501 3y ago
ASL does not have a 1:1 correspondence with spoken language and it uses a large amount of "short hand" and "place holders" for various situations. Throw in fingerspelling, which many signers can do at a very fast rate, and I strongly doubt the ability of a fixed location camera to accurately read an ASL conversation at any useful level.
joshstrange 3y ago
I’m not saying they won’t do that but Apple has been committed to accessibility in a way that no other company comes close to for decades. It’s in their core DNA and something their CEOs have said they will do even though the return on investment doesn’t really exist. Though I think overtime, it will. I wish “accessibility” wasn’t such a dirty word for most people (thinking it’s only for “disabled” people, or people with a problem). Accessibility is for everyone and I encourage people to dig into that section of their phone settings. Most people will be surprised at what is there and that there are probably 1-2 things at a minimum that they might be interested in turning on for themselves.
- busymom0 3y ago
  You are spot on in your second para. A lot of the "cool" advanced settings on iOS are hidden inside accessibility settings.
- criley2 3y ago
  I'm surprised to hear that "Apple has committed to accessibility in a way that no other company comes close to for decades" because Microsoft has already been doing that for over a decade, and is by far the most used OS for accessibility reasons. Apple is actually pretty behind in accessibility on desktop from what I've seen. Their apple designed peripherals (kbb/mouse/etc) are extremely anti-accessible and seem to be designed for the youngest and coolest crowd with zero thought for anyone with any disability. Unlike Microsoft, they do not sell any accessibility or disability focused peripherals. And their OS doesn't make accessibility a first class experience. Third party support for hardware and software is massive for accessibility, and OSX is notoriously bad for third party support. Major third party peripherals from the biggest companies often have pretty bad support, and so the accessibility minority gets the short end of a short stick on OSX.
  - sentientslug 3y ago
    iPhones are essentially the only smartphones with enough accessibility features to be used by the blind, I suggest you watch a video on it because it’s quite fascinating. What do you find anti accessible about the apple peripherals? I’ve also had some experience using VoiceOver and found it acceptable.
    - smugma 3y ago
      I have a friend who is legally blind. Her husband and kid use iPhones and iPads, and she has an iPad, but for her phone she prefers Android. It’s very confusing to me because of all I’ve read about Apple accessibility but she says she finds Android much easier to use!
  - GeekyBear 3y ago
    > I'm surprised to hear that "Apple has committed to accessibility in a way that no other company comes close to Blind users who want to use Windows most often end up needing to pay over a thousand dollars for a JAWS license, since the built in accessibility software isn't very good. Remote support from them costs an additional $200. https://www.freedomscientific.com/products/software/jaws/ https://www.freedomscientific.com/products/software/jaws/ Apple includes full featured accessibility software with the device, and free support for it as well.
    - criley2 3y ago
      Two comments here 1: my understanding is that blind folks DRAMATICALLY prefer JAWS to the built-in OSX tools by an overwhelming margin, something like 9 to 10. That suggests that the OSX tools are extremely inferior if nearly everyone feels obligated to spend. 2: You can literally get a windows computer AND add $1000 license to it and still pay as much or less than a OSX computer. My M1 MBP cost well over $2000! You could put JAWS on a windows computer for $1500 or less. Just pointing out the extreme, extreme cost difference for accessibility users with OSX vs Windows! You can't even get into OSX for under $1k these days, and even then, it's rough and you should spend more.
- extraduder_ire 3y ago
  I've seen more people using iPhone accessibility features without "needing" them than I have with people they're supposedly designed for. Having the rear light flash for notifications was a huge one a couple of years back, which I mostly saw out in nightclubs. (perfect application, if a bit annoying to get flashed in the face a few times a night.) People using that floating assistivetouch button when they have a damaged screen/home button was huge too. I think most non-technical people either don't know they're there or view them as hidden extra features. (which they kinda are, for things like mouse support)
  - asciii 3y ago
    Great point. My favorite to use is the back tap for shortcuts. Handy but unknown.
  - superb_dev 3y ago
    I think this is wonderful! The features benefit everyone
- quickthrower2 3y ago
  It is for anyone whose glasses get broken while they are out and about and don't have a spare pair.
RockRobotRock 3y ago
That's such an HN answer. Someone does something nice for accessibility, and the first thought is: how can we extract value from this?
- NotYourLawyer 3y ago
  This is a tech company in 2023. Of COURSE this is a data mining thing.
- infinitezest 3y ago
  Why would a profit seeking engine not automate this? When was the last time any company at thr FAANG level did something "nice" just to be nice? There's always a hockey stick graph somewhere.

Sounds like a smart way to build a high quality dataset of captioned ASL videos while also providing a great service. Guessing in 2 years they’ll have a decent ML model.

akira2501 3y ago

ASL does not have a 1:1 correspondence with spoken language and it uses a large amount of "short hand" and "place holders" for various situations. Throw in fingerspelling, which many signers can do at a very fast rate, and I strongly doubt the ability of a fixed location camera to accurately read an ASL conversation at any useful level.

joshstrange 3y ago

I’m not saying they won’t do that but Apple has been committed to accessibility in a way that no other company comes close to for decades. It’s in their core DNA and something their CEOs have said they will do even though the return on investment doesn’t really exist. Though I think overtime, it will. I wish “accessibility” wasn’t such a dirty word for most people (thinking it’s only for “disabled” people, or people with a problem). Accessibility is for everyone and I encourage people to dig into that section of their phone settings. Most people will be surprised at what is there and that there are probably 1-2 things at a minimum that they might be interested in turning on for themselves.

busymom0 3y ago
You are spot on in your second para. A lot of the "cool" advanced settings on iOS are hidden inside accessibility settings.
criley2 3y ago
I'm surprised to hear that "Apple has committed to accessibility in a way that no other company comes close to for decades" because Microsoft has already been doing that for over a decade, and is by far the most used OS for accessibility reasons. Apple is actually pretty behind in accessibility on desktop from what I've seen. Their apple designed peripherals (kbb/mouse/etc) are extremely anti-accessible and seem to be designed for the youngest and coolest crowd with zero thought for anyone with any disability. Unlike Microsoft, they do not sell any accessibility or disability focused peripherals. And their OS doesn't make accessibility a first class experience. Third party support for hardware and software is massive for accessibility, and OSX is notoriously bad for third party support. Major third party peripherals from the biggest companies often have pretty bad support, and so the accessibility minority gets the short end of a short stick on OSX.
- sentientslug 3y ago
  iPhones are essentially the only smartphones with enough accessibility features to be used by the blind, I suggest you watch a video on it because it’s quite fascinating. What do you find anti accessible about the apple peripherals? I’ve also had some experience using VoiceOver and found it acceptable.
  - smugma 3y ago
    I have a friend who is legally blind. Her husband and kid use iPhones and iPads, and she has an iPad, but for her phone she prefers Android. It’s very confusing to me because of all I’ve read about Apple accessibility but she says she finds Android much easier to use!
- GeekyBear 3y ago
  > I'm surprised to hear that "Apple has committed to accessibility in a way that no other company comes close to Blind users who want to use Windows most often end up needing to pay over a thousand dollars for a JAWS license, since the built in accessibility software isn't very good. Remote support from them costs an additional $200. https://www.freedomscientific.com/products/software/jaws/ https://www.freedomscientific.com/products/software/jaws/ Apple includes full featured accessibility software with the device, and free support for it as well.
  - criley2 3y ago
    Two comments here 1: my understanding is that blind folks DRAMATICALLY prefer JAWS to the built-in OSX tools by an overwhelming margin, something like 9 to 10. That suggests that the OSX tools are extremely inferior if nearly everyone feels obligated to spend. 2: You can literally get a windows computer AND add $1000 license to it and still pay as much or less than a OSX computer. My M1 MBP cost well over $2000! You could put JAWS on a windows computer for $1500 or less. Just pointing out the extreme, extreme cost difference for accessibility users with OSX vs Windows! You can't even get into OSX for under $1k these days, and even then, it's rough and you should spend more.
extraduder_ire 3y ago
I've seen more people using iPhone accessibility features without "needing" them than I have with people they're supposedly designed for. Having the rear light flash for notifications was a huge one a couple of years back, which I mostly saw out in nightclubs. (perfect application, if a bit annoying to get flashed in the face a few times a night.) People using that floating assistivetouch button when they have a damaged screen/home button was huge too. I think most non-technical people either don't know they're there or view them as hidden extra features. (which they kinda are, for things like mouse support)
- asciii 3y ago
  Great point. My favorite to use is the back tap for shortcuts. Handy but unknown.
- superb_dev 3y ago
  I think this is wonderful! The features benefit everyone
quickthrower2 3y ago
It is for anyone whose glasses get broken while they are out and about and don't have a spare pair.

RockRobotRock 3y ago

That's such an HN answer. Someone does something nice for accessibility, and the first thought is: how can we extract value from this?

NotYourLawyer 3y ago
This is a tech company in 2023. Of COURSE this is a data mining thing.
infinitezest 3y ago
Why would a profit seeking engine not automate this? When was the last time any company at thr FAANG level did something "nice" just to be nice? There's always a hockey stick graph somewhere.