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I think it's important to look at whole lifecycle cost of things. for example - https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy21osti/80580.pdf https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy21osti

I think it's important to look at whole lifecycle cost of things. for example - https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy21osti/80580.pdf https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy21osti/80580.pdf where natural gas is 400 g co2/kwh, oil is 800 g co2/kwh and all renewables are less than 45 g co2/kwh for total lifecycle cost. wind is 13 g co2/kwh, for cristsake xD edit: guess my answer is old and it'll get even more efficient over time.

bullen 3y ago
Those numbers might aswell be pulled out of my behind, but atleast they prove how peaked we are. That said the neodymium mining and the melting involved are things you cannot make easily with electricity. Also I suspect subventions have found their way into those numbers somehow. Anyhow we will now use the last scraps of hydrocarbons fighting over those same hydrocarbons. 1st, 2nd and third world war are the same conflict. Fighting over attention that their parents didn't give them. Love your kids people! Last but not least, I think the weather might destroy a large proportion of wind, solar and hydro before their lifespan.
- ben_w 3y ago
  > That said the neodymium mining and the melting involved are things you cannot make easily with electricity. I don't know why you believe this. Doing this kind of thing electrically isn't new — a friend of mine did his PhD in metalysis (and IIRC funded by the company of the same name) about 15 years ago, and that was investigating the details in one specific metal rather than inventing the process itself.
  - bullen 3y ago
    This is going nowhere, eternal growth mentality will get it's backbone broken by nature sooner or later. You will accept that fact too late. That said, steel f.ex. cannot be made from ore without hydrocarbons at scale. You can recycle it with electric furnaces but at huge cost = no eternal growth. Academics have never discovered anything useful in their short history on the planet.

bullen 3y ago

Those numbers might aswell be pulled out of my behind, but atleast they prove how peaked we are. That said the neodymium mining and the melting involved are things you cannot make easily with electricity. Also I suspect subventions have found their way into those numbers somehow. Anyhow we will now use the last scraps of hydrocarbons fighting over those same hydrocarbons. 1st, 2nd and third world war are the same conflict. Fighting over attention that their parents didn't give them. Love your kids people! Last but not least, I think the weather might destroy a large proportion of wind, solar and hydro before their lifespan.

ben_w 3y ago
> That said the neodymium mining and the melting involved are things you cannot make easily with electricity. I don't know why you believe this. Doing this kind of thing electrically isn't new — a friend of mine did his PhD in metalysis (and IIRC funded by the company of the same name) about 15 years ago, and that was investigating the details in one specific metal rather than inventing the process itself.
- bullen 3y ago
  This is going nowhere, eternal growth mentality will get it's backbone broken by nature sooner or later. You will accept that fact too late. That said, steel f.ex. cannot be made from ore without hydrocarbons at scale. You can recycle it with electric furnaces but at huge cost = no eternal growth. Academics have never discovered anything useful in their short history on the planet.