7 ms·

You still love apple products? This sounds like Stockholm syndrome, I seriously mean that. You are paying your captors.

112233 3y ago
When sonething Apple does not work (e.g. icloud sync) it simply does not work, there is nothing you can do. If windows or linux does not work, there is easy 50 step manual fix on arch wiki, toutube, tomsguide (you have to try all to find the right one) Do you know how nice is to be able to tell others, that there is nothing you can do, and mean it?
- amelius 3y ago
  I told my family: fine, you can buy Apple products, but don't expect me to fix them when they fail.
- danmur 3y ago
  lol, plausible deniability
- nikanj 3y ago
  The 50 step manual fix is actually just generated by chatgpt and sounds plausible, but does not actually work. It's just a red herring to get page clicks / ad views.
  - CrzyLngPwd 3y ago
    Ah, you tell me this now I just go to step 47!
  - debugnik 3y ago
    Except these kind of guides have been available for over 15 years. Maybe now it'll be harder to find the genuine ones, though.
  - leemailll 3y ago
    that's the thing. the horror. the horror is not controlled by ai, but people use those junks to abuse search ranking of google. I guess we may find again the old old yahoo! is useful
- rahoulb 3y ago
  There are times when I find this utterly infuriating, but other times it's an absolute blessed relief. I know there's no point wasting time hunting for a solution (that may or may not make the situation worse) and I should just walk away and do something more meaningful instead.
- crossroadsguy 3y ago
  Right. 50 step manual fix! Only that it actually is like generally 3-4 step fix. But I get it. As opposed to trying to let it sink in that something that could have easily been fixed and diagnosed you get to hear “buy a new one; nothing can do”, I am sure being able to fix something is less appealing. Because we must not lose sight of things like the organismic satisfaction one experiences when being able to pay for something Apple. That opportunity! Oh, my breathing is going up already. Just the thought of it. Yeah, I get what you mean.
  - 112233 3y ago
    I mean, right, right? Once friends and family agree to promote you to their voluntary tech support position, you are installing, reinstalling, upgrading no end. But if they have sony, apple or any of those - endless vacation!
- kbelder 3y ago
  It's interesting when somebody lists A, B, and then comes to the exact opposite conclusion C that you would. What a different life you and I must have lead.
thinkingemote 3y ago
I think it's more like defence of investment. They have spent tens of thousands of money, time, knowledge on this brands ecosystem of devices and software. It's not just airpods it's the phone, watch, desktop, laptop, all the software purchased over their lifetime and the identity that goes along with it. In deciding to leave there's also future costs of moving to something more free but "worse". The pain needs to be way greater than the cost of what they have invested. In a way they are not captors of peoples freedom but bankers who hold people's time, effort and money. Even with OP's case I can almost guarantee that whilst he might consider moving away from Apple because of his bricked laptop, he won't - he will side with his investments. Leaving this ecosystem would also cause psychological pain - its very hard to tell oneself that "I was wrong". The genius is that Apple makes good stuff and they know that what they make "just works" and it all works great together and people will invest not only money but their very selves in the company. The company is the world biggest tech company for a reason.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
mort96 3y ago
I don't understand how you draw a connection between this and Stockholm syndrome. "The products are great when they work, but Apple is horrible to deal with when something goes wrong" is a completely sensible opinion. And after all, the 99% case is that things work well. Choosing products which are worse 99% of the time but where the company is more pleasant to work with in the 1% case where something goes wrong is a tough sell. (Omitted from this discussion is whether Apple products are truly better when they work or not. That's a wholly unproductive discussion which comes down to opinion and mattcantstop clearly thinks that they are.)
- bryanrasmussen 3y ago
  there are various programmer types who find the Apple way really onerous and problematic, because they want to control everything, these can be either Windows or Linux since both give you the ability to control and mod your system at very high level. Every example of bad behavior by Apple in relation to their products, customer service etc. connects in the mind with this underlying philosophical difference between how computers should be used, and so the indignant feeling wells up in their brain that Apple users are misled and abused, and if you are misled and abused you must have Stockholm syndrome. This however is just my reading of the phenomenon I have observed quite a lot. Before anyone tells me I'm an Apple lover, I would say until the M1 I considered all OS'es equivalent with some various benefits to each, but as long as I have M series Macs I do believe they are very superior (but haven't tried recent - this year - non M machine)
  - 7thaccount 3y ago
    The problem with the "walled garden" is that it is insidious. At some point they control everything and at that point, it's too late to create an alternative product as it would be like 20 generations behind in performance. You don't have to go so far back as to build your own NAND gates or a computer out of falling marbles, but giving the user almost zero ability to customize is just crazy.
    - CPLX 3y ago
npteljes 3y ago
I think it's rather "pick your poison". It's not like there are non-sucky options available. And I mean this generally.
tmpX7dMeXU 3y ago
[dead]
gureddio 3y ago
All of these ecosystems have problems. I'm a long term Google Pixel user and I could list all of the irritating problems I've had over the years
handsclean 3y ago
Stockholm Syndrome was invented by a man who didn’t even talk to the people he accused of it, but simply asserted it as explanation for why former hostages were criticizing the police, while those former hostages were clearly stating that it was because the police were aggressive and irrational, escalating with acts like unnecessarily pointing guns, and generally disregarding the safety of the hostages. The only other famous case turned out to be acting under duress. It is to this date not a real psychological diagnosis. Similarly, if you’d like to understand why people put up with Apple’s moderate abuse, maybe ask not how one might write them off as insane, but instead what their alternatives are.
mschuster91 3y ago
Hardware-wise it's hard to beat Apple on build quality and resale value. The software side though has really gone downhill.
cramjabsyn 3y ago
Oh please

When sonething Apple does not work (e.g. icloud sync) it simply does not work, there is nothing you can do. If windows or linux does not work, there is easy 50 step manual fix on arch wiki, toutube, tomsguide (you have to try all to find the right one) Do you know how nice is to be able to tell others, that there is nothing you can do, and mean it?

amelius 3y ago
I told my family: fine, you can buy Apple products, but don't expect me to fix them when they fail.
danmur 3y ago
lol, plausible deniability
nikanj 3y ago
The 50 step manual fix is actually just generated by chatgpt and sounds plausible, but does not actually work. It's just a red herring to get page clicks / ad views.
- CrzyLngPwd 3y ago
  Ah, you tell me this now I just go to step 47!
- debugnik 3y ago
  Except these kind of guides have been available for over 15 years. Maybe now it'll be harder to find the genuine ones, though.
- leemailll 3y ago
  that's the thing. the horror. the horror is not controlled by ai, but people use those junks to abuse search ranking of google. I guess we may find again the old old yahoo! is useful
rahoulb 3y ago
There are times when I find this utterly infuriating, but other times it's an absolute blessed relief. I know there's no point wasting time hunting for a solution (that may or may not make the situation worse) and I should just walk away and do something more meaningful instead.
crossroadsguy 3y ago
Right. 50 step manual fix! Only that it actually is like generally 3-4 step fix. But I get it. As opposed to trying to let it sink in that something that could have easily been fixed and diagnosed you get to hear “buy a new one; nothing can do”, I am sure being able to fix something is less appealing. Because we must not lose sight of things like the organismic satisfaction one experiences when being able to pay for something Apple. That opportunity! Oh, my breathing is going up already. Just the thought of it. Yeah, I get what you mean.
- 112233 3y ago
  I mean, right, right? Once friends and family agree to promote you to their voluntary tech support position, you are installing, reinstalling, upgrading no end. But if they have sony, apple or any of those - endless vacation!
kbelder 3y ago
It's interesting when somebody lists A, B, and then comes to the exact opposite conclusion C that you would. What a different life you and I must have lead.

thinkingemote 3y ago

I think it's more like defence of investment. They have spent tens of thousands of money, time, knowledge on this brands ecosystem of devices and software. It's not just airpods it's the phone, watch, desktop, laptop, all the software purchased over their lifetime and the identity that goes along with it. In deciding to leave there's also future costs of moving to something more free but "worse". The pain needs to be way greater than the cost of what they have invested. In a way they are not captors of peoples freedom but bankers who hold people's time, effort and money. Even with OP's case I can almost guarantee that whilst he might consider moving away from Apple because of his bricked laptop, he won't - he will side with his investments. Leaving this ecosystem would also cause psychological pain - its very hard to tell oneself that "I was wrong". The genius is that Apple makes good stuff and they know that what they make "just works" and it all works great together and people will invest not only money but their very selves in the company. The company is the world biggest tech company for a reason.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

mort96 3y ago

I don't understand how you draw a connection between this and Stockholm syndrome. "The products are great when they work, but Apple is horrible to deal with when something goes wrong" is a completely sensible opinion. And after all, the 99% case is that things work well. Choosing products which are worse 99% of the time but where the company is more pleasant to work with in the 1% case where something goes wrong is a tough sell. (Omitted from this discussion is whether Apple products are truly better when they work or not. That's a wholly unproductive discussion which comes down to opinion and mattcantstop clearly thinks that they are.)

bryanrasmussen 3y ago
there are various programmer types who find the Apple way really onerous and problematic, because they want to control everything, these can be either Windows or Linux since both give you the ability to control and mod your system at very high level. Every example of bad behavior by Apple in relation to their products, customer service etc. connects in the mind with this underlying philosophical difference between how computers should be used, and so the indignant feeling wells up in their brain that Apple users are misled and abused, and if you are misled and abused you must have Stockholm syndrome. This however is just my reading of the phenomenon I have observed quite a lot. Before anyone tells me I'm an Apple lover, I would say until the M1 I considered all OS'es equivalent with some various benefits to each, but as long as I have M series Macs I do believe they are very superior (but haven't tried recent - this year - non M machine)
- 7thaccount 3y ago
  The problem with the "walled garden" is that it is insidious. At some point they control everything and at that point, it's too late to create an alternative product as it would be like 20 generations behind in performance. You don't have to go so far back as to build your own NAND gates or a computer out of falling marbles, but giving the user almost zero ability to customize is just crazy.
  - CPLX 3y ago

npteljes 3y ago

I think it's rather "pick your poison". It's not like there are non-sucky options available. And I mean this generally.

tmpX7dMeXU 3y ago

[dead]

gureddio 3y ago

All of these ecosystems have problems. I'm a long term Google Pixel user and I could list all of the irritating problems I've had over the years

handsclean 3y ago

Stockholm Syndrome was invented by a man who didn’t even talk to the people he accused of it, but simply asserted it as explanation for why former hostages were criticizing the police, while those former hostages were clearly stating that it was because the police were aggressive and irrational, escalating with acts like unnecessarily pointing guns, and generally disregarding the safety of the hostages. The only other famous case turned out to be acting under duress. It is to this date not a real psychological diagnosis. Similarly, if you’d like to understand why people put up with Apple’s moderate abuse, maybe ask not how one might write them off as insane, but instead what their alternatives are.

mschuster91 3y ago

Hardware-wise it's hard to beat Apple on build quality and resale value. The software side though has really gone downhill.

cramjabsyn 3y ago

Oh please