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Mormons believe that Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon from golden plates (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_plates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go

Mormons believe that Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon from golden plates (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_plates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_plates) that he found near his home in upstate New York, which might be what OP's referring to.

mholt 3y ago
I figured; it's just an important detail that "someone who lives in Utah" would know if they took the slightest bit of time getting to know or understand the religion that surrounds them. It follows that claims of "scam artist" and "magic plates" and "ancient Egyptians" may be dubious, as the person making the claim doesn't actually know the most basic story of the faith.
- lazide 3y ago
  Do you have any counter cites? Because it seems pretty close! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_plates https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_plates
  - mholt 3y ago
    Primary sources. The only references to Egypt are in relation to the language, not actual Egyptians: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/search?query=egyptians&types=documents-papers-revelations-and-translations%7Cdocuments-papers-histories%7Cdocuments-papers-documents%7Cdocuments-papers-journals%7Cdocuments-papers-introductions%7Cdocuments-papers-administrative%7Cdocuments-papers-legal%7Cdocuments-papers-other-contemporary-papers%7Cdocuments-papers%7Crelated-materials%7Cbiographical-directory%7Cgeographical-directory%7Cglossary%7Cevent&page=1 https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/search?query=egyptians&typ... i.e. the plates were written in a language reformed from original Egyptian -- which makes sense, as ancient Hebrews would sometimes write in Egyptian characters when enscribing was difficult (metal plates!) because the Egyptian script was more concise. It became reformed after a thousand years on the other side of the world, far removed from original Egyptian land and culture. No Egyptians were ever involved with burying the plates. That would have been a native American, technically a Jew, whose ancestors came over from Jerusalem / ancient Israel. As for magic plates, there's nothing in the historical record claiming that the plates themselves were magic: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/search?query=magic&types=documents-papers-histories%7Cdocuments-papers-revelations-and-translations%7Cdocuments-papers-introductions%7Cdocuments-papers-legal%7Cdocuments-papers-journals%7Cdocuments-papers%7Crelated-materials%7Cbiographical-directory%7Cgeographical-directory%7Cglossary%7Cevent&page=1 https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/search?query=magic&types=d... I guess anyone could say anything they want about them, but those who actually saw and handled the plates never claimed they were "magic" as far as I can tell. Then as for scam artist -- I suppose that is a matter of personal judgment, since no fair trial ever occurred or made a guilty verdict before he was murdered.
    - reedf1 3y ago
      QED
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - michtzik 3y ago
      > Then as for scam artist -- I suppose that is a matter of personal judgment, since no fair trial ever occurred or made a guilty verdict before he was murdered. It's mildly impressive that in the same sentence where you mention there was no guilty verdict "for scam artist", you say Joseph Smith was "murdered", a thing for which there was also no guilty verdict: the five men indicted for the killings were acquitted.
      - lazide 3y ago
        I have to say, this inspired me to track down an account of what transpired - and it is wild! [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Joseph_Smith https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Joseph_Smith] Treason against Illinois? Polygamy? Declaring Martial Law? Being kicked out of Missouri after a war named after your religion? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1838_Mormon_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1838_Mormon_War] All while running for President of the United States, and just before being lynched by an angry mob? And with no convictions for those accused? Truly an overachiever. P.S. One of the best quotes I've ever seen - Missouri Gov. Boggs had an attempted assassination, and during the trial of the most likely suspect - Smith associate Porter Rockwell - Rockwell successfully defended himself with, among other things, (per wikipedia) his reputation as a deadly gunman and his statement that he "never shot at anybody, if I shoot they get shot!... He's still alive, ain't he?". Amazing.
      - helsinkiandrew 3y ago
        > you say Joseph Smith was "murdered", a thing for which there was also no guilty verdict: the five men indicted for the killings were acquitted. Those 5 men were acquitted, but he still died from being shot multiple times by a mob. How could that not be murder?

mholt 3y ago

I figured; it's just an important detail that "someone who lives in Utah" would know if they took the slightest bit of time getting to know or understand the religion that surrounds them. It follows that claims of "scam artist" and "magic plates" and "ancient Egyptians" may be dubious, as the person making the claim doesn't actually know the most basic story of the faith.

lazide 3y ago
Do you have any counter cites? Because it seems pretty close! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_plates https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_plates
- mholt 3y ago
  Primary sources. The only references to Egypt are in relation to the language, not actual Egyptians: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/search?query=egyptians&types=documents-papers-revelations-and-translations%7Cdocuments-papers-histories%7Cdocuments-papers-documents%7Cdocuments-papers-journals%7Cdocuments-papers-introductions%7Cdocuments-papers-administrative%7Cdocuments-papers-legal%7Cdocuments-papers-other-contemporary-papers%7Cdocuments-papers%7Crelated-materials%7Cbiographical-directory%7Cgeographical-directory%7Cglossary%7Cevent&page=1 https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/search?query=egyptians&typ... i.e. the plates were written in a language reformed from original Egyptian -- which makes sense, as ancient Hebrews would sometimes write in Egyptian characters when enscribing was difficult (metal plates!) because the Egyptian script was more concise. It became reformed after a thousand years on the other side of the world, far removed from original Egyptian land and culture. No Egyptians were ever involved with burying the plates. That would have been a native American, technically a Jew, whose ancestors came over from Jerusalem / ancient Israel. As for magic plates, there's nothing in the historical record claiming that the plates themselves were magic: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/search?query=magic&types=documents-papers-histories%7Cdocuments-papers-revelations-and-translations%7Cdocuments-papers-introductions%7Cdocuments-papers-legal%7Cdocuments-papers-journals%7Cdocuments-papers%7Crelated-materials%7Cbiographical-directory%7Cgeographical-directory%7Cglossary%7Cevent&page=1 https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/search?query=magic&types=d... I guess anyone could say anything they want about them, but those who actually saw and handled the plates never claimed they were "magic" as far as I can tell. Then as for scam artist -- I suppose that is a matter of personal judgment, since no fair trial ever occurred or made a guilty verdict before he was murdered.
  - reedf1 3y ago
    QED
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - michtzik 3y ago
    > Then as for scam artist -- I suppose that is a matter of personal judgment, since no fair trial ever occurred or made a guilty verdict before he was murdered. It's mildly impressive that in the same sentence where you mention there was no guilty verdict "for scam artist", you say Joseph Smith was "murdered", a thing for which there was also no guilty verdict: the five men indicted for the killings were acquitted.
    - lazide 3y ago
      I have to say, this inspired me to track down an account of what transpired - and it is wild! [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Joseph_Smith https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Joseph_Smith] Treason against Illinois? Polygamy? Declaring Martial Law? Being kicked out of Missouri after a war named after your religion? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1838_Mormon_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1838_Mormon_War] All while running for President of the United States, and just before being lynched by an angry mob? And with no convictions for those accused? Truly an overachiever. P.S. One of the best quotes I've ever seen - Missouri Gov. Boggs had an attempted assassination, and during the trial of the most likely suspect - Smith associate Porter Rockwell - Rockwell successfully defended himself with, among other things, (per wikipedia) his reputation as a deadly gunman and his statement that he "never shot at anybody, if I shoot they get shot!... He's still alive, ain't he?". Amazing.
    - helsinkiandrew 3y ago
      > you say Joseph Smith was "murdered", a thing for which there was also no guilty verdict: the five men indicted for the killings were acquitted. Those 5 men were acquitted, but he still died from being shot multiple times by a mob. How could that not be murder?