5 ms·

They want to further outsource law enforcement to a due-process-free zone.

by SamReidHughes 3y ago

local_crmdgeon 3y ago
This is being handled through due process
richiebful1 3y ago
This is literally being tried in court under the Clean Air Act. How does this circumvent due process?
- SamReidHughes 3y ago
  They want eBay to enforce the law on merchants.
  - eli 3y ago
    eBay is a merchant
  - abracadaniel 3y ago
    Is that different from any other retail store that has to choose what products to carry based on the local laws? Just because eBay crowd sources their product acquisition, doesn't materially change the fact that they are, ultimately, a retailer selling products. I go to a store and buy a product, and the only difference is in the retailer's perception of my relationship to the origin of the product, but it's a distinction that only exists on paper and ultimately has no difference from the outside. That distinction without a difference shouldn't create a loophole to bypass all liability.
  - axus 3y ago
    I think it's an efficient use of tax dollars for the gov to hold a trial once, instead of 300k times.
  - littlestymaar 3y ago
    Like every business that's supposed to enforce any kind of compliance requirement…
- RIMR 3y ago
  Because the devices aren't illegal, and have legal uses, but eBay is being held responsible for the illegal ways end users use these devices. The only real violation that might have occurred here is not removing listings for these devices where they are explicitly marketed for illegal purposes. Short that, they need to actually justify passing a law outlawing these devices, or they need to enforce the existing laws against deceptive use of these devices.
  - vkou 3y ago
    The devices are illegal to sell and install. EBay seems to be squarely in the first business.
    - chucksta 3y ago
      They are illegal to install on road vehicles. You can do whatever you want to off road vehicles used in power sports.
  - enragedcacti 3y ago
    AFAICT it is up to the EPA whether or not to exempt noncompliant nonroad engines/equipment that are intended solely for competition. I don't think you need to explicitly market a product for illegal purposes for the EPA to determine that it is not unlikely to be used contrary to the intent. > New nonroad engines/equipment you produce that are used solely for competition are excluded from emission standards. We may exempt (rather than exclude) new nonroad engines/equipment you produce that you intend to be used solely for competition, where we determine that such engines/equipment are unlikely to be used contrary to your intent. https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-40/chapter-I/subchapter-U/part-1068/subpart-C/section-1068.235 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-40/chapter-I/subchapter-U...

They want to further outsource law enforcement to a due-process-free zone.

local_crmdgeon 3y ago

This is being handled through due process

richiebful1 3y ago

This is literally being tried in court under the Clean Air Act. How does this circumvent due process?

SamReidHughes 3y ago
They want eBay to enforce the law on merchants.
- eli 3y ago
  eBay is a merchant
- abracadaniel 3y ago
  Is that different from any other retail store that has to choose what products to carry based on the local laws? Just because eBay crowd sources their product acquisition, doesn't materially change the fact that they are, ultimately, a retailer selling products. I go to a store and buy a product, and the only difference is in the retailer's perception of my relationship to the origin of the product, but it's a distinction that only exists on paper and ultimately has no difference from the outside. That distinction without a difference shouldn't create a loophole to bypass all liability.
- axus 3y ago
  I think it's an efficient use of tax dollars for the gov to hold a trial once, instead of 300k times.
- littlestymaar 3y ago
  Like every business that's supposed to enforce any kind of compliance requirement…
RIMR 3y ago
Because the devices aren't illegal, and have legal uses, but eBay is being held responsible for the illegal ways end users use these devices. The only real violation that might have occurred here is not removing listings for these devices where they are explicitly marketed for illegal purposes. Short that, they need to actually justify passing a law outlawing these devices, or they need to enforce the existing laws against deceptive use of these devices.
- vkou 3y ago
  The devices are illegal to sell and install. EBay seems to be squarely in the first business.
  - chucksta 3y ago
    They are illegal to install on road vehicles. You can do whatever you want to off road vehicles used in power sports.
- enragedcacti 3y ago
  AFAICT it is up to the EPA whether or not to exempt noncompliant nonroad engines/equipment that are intended solely for competition. I don't think you need to explicitly market a product for illegal purposes for the EPA to determine that it is not unlikely to be used contrary to the intent. > New nonroad engines/equipment you produce that are used solely for competition are excluded from emission standards. We may exempt (rather than exclude) new nonroad engines/equipment you produce that you intend to be used solely for competition, where we determine that such engines/equipment are unlikely to be used contrary to your intent. https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-40/chapter-I/subchapter-U/part-1068/subpart-C/section-1068.235 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-40/chapter-I/subchapter-U...