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> But it’s quite stupid: In both countries you need AC, [...] Almost no residential building in Germany has AC, and I'm unsure what you mean by "need". Also th

> But it’s quite stupid: In both countries you need AC, [...] Almost no residential building in Germany has AC, and I'm unsure what you mean by "need". Also the buildings are built to last, so no remodeling every few years like in the US. That means one is stuck with most of the utility built into the house from the start. Remodeling a regular central European brick-and-mortar house to accommodate floor heating or duct vents is difficult and expensive.

bafe 3y ago
Speaking from Switzerland: most building until recently were clearly built for cold winters, not hot summer. They are often insulated quite well and well heated, but recent summers showed that they aren't suitable for hot weather: they lack AC, rely simply on open windows for ventilations and frequently have too many large windows that can't be darkened enough, hence letting a lot of heat in
- RamblingCTO 3y ago
  I agree with that take. Being like "look at Germany, we don't need ACs" is outdated bs. I absolutely suffer for almost 2 months a year because I don't have an AC including lack of sleep etc. We will see a rise, even though some people feel like that's the wrong thing to do with the climate change. There's a fine line: if you have green energy, why would you care? Consuming more green energy actually improves the overall situation, as more money is available to build out green energy in the first place (especially with things like Green Planet Energy). It's just the need for moral superiority for some folks that's stopping AC distribution in central Europe imho.
  - bafe 3y ago
    I agree with you on the energy use. Even more so because the peak of cooling demand corresponds very well with the peak of PV energy production. If the system is well designed, cooling using an efficient split AC unit will be almost free. Besides, if they really don't want people to adopt AC it's high time to start adapting buildings and cities for hot summers , which means reducing the amount of paved surfaces, planting more trees, adding forced ventilation to buildings and blinds that really darken rooms.
    - RamblingCTO 3y ago
      Oh yeah good point! I always wonder why no one sees the very simple things you can do in a city. It shouldn't cost much to add trees etc. to a city with such a big impact
      - bafe 3y ago
        They are starting. We had a referendum in Zurich last Sunday to to finance a project to adapt the city to hotter summers. It was a complex situation, with the municipal government recommending people reject the initial project in favor of a similar project organised by the city environment department. It all looks good on paper, but I fear another case of money being spent most on planning instead of using it to adopt simple measures. If you are interested, you can read all about it here: https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/portal/de/index/politik_u_recht/abstimmungen_u_wahlen/aktuell/230903/230903-1.html https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/portal/de/index/politik_u_recht...
        RamblingCTO 3y ago
        So as I understand it's rejected? Fingers crossed it works out! But at least you can vote on something ;) In Germany you just feel left out and stuff happens (in either direction). That doesn't feel good at all.
        bafe 3y ago
        The original plan was rejected because it was too vague regarding who would implement it. The counter-proposal from the city was accepted, therefore they will now start to work on how to best implement it. Unfortunately a large sum of the money will just be spent in planning and hiring, which is kind of typical for these public projects
      - solardev 3y ago
        Maybe a generation gap? I think the younger folks, who are only barely entering government, tend to take climate and livability much more seriously than the old generations who "got along fine without all that". Times are changing...
yurishimo 3y ago
What about portable units? They're pretty popular here in NL, but I suppose people are also rapidly installing mini-splits, at least here in the south.
- Ekaros 3y ago
  Portable units in general are just bad. Not very efficient, noisy and not that performant. And sadly it seems most only have single pipe, not two that would fix lot of issues.
- bafe 3y ago
  They are just terribly inefficient. Now a lot are sold here, but it's just not a feasible solution to make living in summer more tolerable. A mini split or even better centralised AC for the entire building is much more efficient
eisa01 3y ago
Already 13% has air condition, and half of those are the crappy portable AC type where you put a hose through the window. Sales are on the increase as summers are hotter. We even see apartment dwellers in Norway getting these https://www.verivox.de/presse/13-prozent-der-deutschen-nutzen-eine-klimaanlage-1120301/ https://www.verivox.de/presse/13-prozent-der-deutschen-nutze...
- morsch 3y ago
  A lot of people have bought crappy AC to help cope with the five to ten days of heatwave a year. They're not running often.
  - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
    I've been running mine for about a month. Depends on your house, how much it traps heat, etc. Really it's besides the point - you might not need a plunger to unclog the toilet or a fire extinguisher or a first aid kit often, but when you do, you really need it!

bafe 3y ago

Speaking from Switzerland: most building until recently were clearly built for cold winters, not hot summer. They are often insulated quite well and well heated, but recent summers showed that they aren't suitable for hot weather: they lack AC, rely simply on open windows for ventilations and frequently have too many large windows that can't be darkened enough, hence letting a lot of heat in

RamblingCTO 3y ago
I agree with that take. Being like "look at Germany, we don't need ACs" is outdated bs. I absolutely suffer for almost 2 months a year because I don't have an AC including lack of sleep etc. We will see a rise, even though some people feel like that's the wrong thing to do with the climate change. There's a fine line: if you have green energy, why would you care? Consuming more green energy actually improves the overall situation, as more money is available to build out green energy in the first place (especially with things like Green Planet Energy). It's just the need for moral superiority for some folks that's stopping AC distribution in central Europe imho.
- bafe 3y ago
  I agree with you on the energy use. Even more so because the peak of cooling demand corresponds very well with the peak of PV energy production. If the system is well designed, cooling using an efficient split AC unit will be almost free. Besides, if they really don't want people to adopt AC it's high time to start adapting buildings and cities for hot summers , which means reducing the amount of paved surfaces, planting more trees, adding forced ventilation to buildings and blinds that really darken rooms.
  - RamblingCTO 3y ago
    Oh yeah good point! I always wonder why no one sees the very simple things you can do in a city. It shouldn't cost much to add trees etc. to a city with such a big impact
    - bafe 3y ago
      They are starting. We had a referendum in Zurich last Sunday to to finance a project to adapt the city to hotter summers. It was a complex situation, with the municipal government recommending people reject the initial project in favor of a similar project organised by the city environment department. It all looks good on paper, but I fear another case of money being spent most on planning instead of using it to adopt simple measures. If you are interested, you can read all about it here: https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/portal/de/index/politik_u_recht/abstimmungen_u_wahlen/aktuell/230903/230903-1.html https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/portal/de/index/politik_u_recht...
      - RamblingCTO 3y ago
        So as I understand it's rejected? Fingers crossed it works out! But at least you can vote on something ;) In Germany you just feel left out and stuff happens (in either direction). That doesn't feel good at all.
        bafe 3y ago
        The original plan was rejected because it was too vague regarding who would implement it. The counter-proposal from the city was accepted, therefore they will now start to work on how to best implement it. Unfortunately a large sum of the money will just be spent in planning and hiring, which is kind of typical for these public projects
    - solardev 3y ago
      Maybe a generation gap? I think the younger folks, who are only barely entering government, tend to take climate and livability much more seriously than the old generations who "got along fine without all that". Times are changing...

yurishimo 3y ago

What about portable units? They're pretty popular here in NL, but I suppose people are also rapidly installing mini-splits, at least here in the south.

Ekaros 3y ago
Portable units in general are just bad. Not very efficient, noisy and not that performant. And sadly it seems most only have single pipe, not two that would fix lot of issues.
bafe 3y ago
They are just terribly inefficient. Now a lot are sold here, but it's just not a feasible solution to make living in summer more tolerable. A mini split or even better centralised AC for the entire building is much more efficient

eisa01 3y ago

Already 13% has air condition, and half of those are the crappy portable AC type where you put a hose through the window. Sales are on the increase as summers are hotter. We even see apartment dwellers in Norway getting these https://www.verivox.de/presse/13-prozent-der-deutschen-nutzen-eine-klimaanlage-1120301/ https://www.verivox.de/presse/13-prozent-der-deutschen-nutze...

morsch 3y ago
A lot of people have bought crappy AC to help cope with the five to ten days of heatwave a year. They're not running often.
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  I've been running mine for about a month. Depends on your house, how much it traps heat, etc. Really it's besides the point - you might not need a plunger to unclog the toilet or a fire extinguisher or a first aid kit often, but when you do, you really need it!