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"Along a less-traveled route, meditation remains what it long was: a deeply transformative pursuit, a devoted metamorphosis of the mind toward increasingly enli
by mohave529 3y ago
"Along a less-traveled route, meditation remains what it long was: a deeply transformative pursuit, a devoted metamorphosis of the mind toward increasingly enlightened states."
This pretty much lines up with what meditation has done for me. However, the pursuit of "states" can be a trap in of itself.
As my practice has gotten deeper, I've started to reframe meditation for myself as the process of unrelenting inquiry in the search for base truth. In that pursuit, the practice becomes a process of subtraction of core beliefs and ideas that simply aren't true - or can't be known to be true. As these beliefs disappeared, much of my own personal suffering did as well as so many of the things that were sources of conflict in my mind were predicated on false beliefs.
With this framing meditation can take many forms. Ramana Maharshi famously asked his devotees to start with the question of "Who am I?" and just keep inquiring.
- vram22 3y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramana_Maharshi https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramana_Maharshi Related: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Brunton https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Brunton
- downsplat 3y agoFor resources about Ramana Maharshi, sure, Paul Brunton was popular, but I'd first go with Arthur Osborne and/or David Godman. David has a metric ton of videos on youtube if you prefer listening to reading.
- freitzkriesler2 3y ago> This pretty much lines up with what meditation has done for me. However, the pursuit of "states" can be a trap in of itself. Interesting, after a certain point you get diminishing returns and once you've eliminated or solved the things conflicting you, then staying in a meditative state becomes an illusory trap to avoid life and living. I knew a guy who did just that. Would spend hours meditating to the point where he avoided living. It seemed to be more like avoidance rather than being able to enjoy the gift of living without the troubles that come with it which meditation solves.
- beardedmoose 3y agoInteresting take. With this line of thinking would Buddhist monks just be practicing excessive escapism much like those who turn to drugs and alcohol? Just some random thoughts but there seems to be a reoccurring theme in life in which too much of a good thing is indeed too much. Life is about balance, all that meditating and no action does what exactly? What good is all that enlightenment if you aren't experiencing life or helping others?
- ReactiveJelly 3y agoUsually drug and alcohol addiction ends up hurting other people and being a drain on social safety nets, right? I guess if the monks can live cheaply and not bother anyone, it's fine. It's not for me, though.
- freitzkriesler2 3y agoMaybe but not always. Some of those Buddhist monks still enjoy a few earthly pleasures albeit at levels that appear quite modest to us.
- oldstrangers 3y agoI've always sort of intuitively done this since I was a kid (https://zchry.org/words/questioning-my-quantum-leap-an-ongoing-game-of-self-interrogation https://zchry.org/words/questioning-my-quantum-leap-an-ongoi...). I have zero experience with meditation in the traditional sense but I'm really interested in going down that path next as I try to broaden my scope.
- dlivingston 3y agoA bit tangential, but I absolutely love your blog design. Minimalistic, yet very aesthetic and unique.
- oldstrangers 3y agoThank you!
- johndhi 3y agoI used to play a game as a kid where I'd close my eyes and try not to see or imagine anything. To keep a black empty universe as the only thing I see, for as long as possible. It isn't easy!
- oldstrangers 3y agoI have a similar thought experiment where I try to imagine the true essence of 'nothingness', down to even the removal of the 'idea' of nothingness and even the thought that I'm trying to imagine something. It's a weird feeling.
- johndhi 3y agoI do that too!
- mirekrusin 3y agoI did something similar but always tried to imagine things - shapes like cube, rotate it, move it around, slice it etc. - not easy. I always found it odd you'd want to deprive yourself from excercising mind this way by medidating = practicing not thinking. I believe it helped me a lot when programming and thinking about problems in general.
- krzat 3y agoCan you give some examples of your false beliefs?
- borg16 3y agocan you provide some resources to understand this "advanced" meditation? my attempts with calm/headspace etc always stop at the same theme of 'concentrate on breathing, distractions are fine'. I wanted to understand what is out there, especially outside of these apps and folks who pursue meditation seriously.
- calmoo 3y agoSam Harris’ ‘Waking up’ app is good. Starts from fundamentals and teaches you about the practice.
- haswell 3y agoI’ve tried Calm and Headspace, and they never really worked for me. The “Waking Up” app has been a complete game changer. The core introductory course helped me get it for the first time, and the library of content and meditation approaches from various teachers in the app gives you a rabbit hole to explore as deeply as you want. It’s been truly transformative, starting with the gradual realization that my thoughts are not me. If they were, who is aware of them? This isn’t just an idea, it’s something that I began to feel/understand directly, which then led to a lot less entanglement and rumination. This was just the beginning. I definitely credit the approach in this app with making this make sense. Not affiliated, just a happy user.
- chrispine 3y agoStrong +1 for the Waking Up app. (I also ready the Waking Up book, and found it to be quite hit-or-miss for me. But the app is just wonderful.)
- eep_social 3y agoBased on these recommendations I tried it out. Content seems fine but in 2023 it’s hard to escape the connection between Sam Harris and so-called “effective altruism” which soured the experience in for me. I like and recommend Smiling Mind from a company out of Australia. It feels like what would happen if PBS released a version of Waking Up.
- curo 3y ago> the pursuit of "states" can be a trap in of itself Fully agree although a lot of devotees of Ramana Maharshi said they fell into silence just sitting in his presence. Improbable but it would be hilarious if scientists could make little "mouna wifi hubs" where practitioners got a silence handicap by sitting around it. In the end though, I'm also skeptical that anything about self-inquiry can be replicated by an additive approach.
- jules22 3y agoThere are a bunch of psychology phenomena that explain such things. No Wifi involved. I generally find the followers to be quite suggestable by people they designated as a guru.
- crazygringo 3y agoCould you give an example of beliefs/ideas you've let go of, or discovered can't be known to be true? I've been trying to understand the pros/cons of psychotherapy vs meditation, as both of them seem to involve letting go of false beliefs. But while there are a lot of examples of this in psychotherapy and the mechanisms are well-documented, it's hard to find first-person accounts regarding meditation that aren't just generalities. So I'd find it really valuable to hear some examples of anything concrete/practical -- of course if it's nothing too personal or private.
- curo 3y agoRamana Maharshi says anything transient is false CBT and other psychotherapies challenge X or Y as false
- jules22 3y agoThere is no reason why he should be taken as an authority. "anything transient is false" is wrong at so many levels.
- chrispine 3y agoNot disagreeing, but it's also correct on some levels.
- cracoucax 3y agoI believe since Maharshi was a practitioner of hinduism for him "the self" (what they call Atman) was to be seen in all things, and the same everywhere. So anything transient cannot be the self, hence is an illusion, or false. But yes i also believe it's quite wrong ^^
- kagakuninja 3y agoHe practiced Advaita vedanta. When exploring the non-duality of self vs world, there are fundamentally 2 approaches. Advaita Vedanta denies the existence of the world, only the (true) self is real. Buddhism denies the existence of the self.
- rwhyan 3y agoIndeed. Ultimately, unrelenting inquiry came to: "I am."
- hinkley 3y agoTurns out a lot of humans bond over mutually shared grasping, so it can make you 'not fun at parties' when they're harrumphing about things that Do. Not. Matter. and are put off by you not dog-piling. Most people wonder how the Dalai Lama can be so serene. I wonder how he can be so approachable.
- asdfman123 3y agoIt sounds like you may be dealing with growing pains: moving on from old relationships and social scenes you've matured past.
- hinkley 3y agoCan’t pick my family, neighbors or colleagues. Can’t control my friends’ friends, or people who I share hobbies with. They are who they are and I can deal with them or isolate.