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somewhat similar to the demonization of communism that the west pushed for decades? Apparently there are many people that are more incline to just smile and no

somewhat similar to the demonization of communism that the west pushed for decades? Apparently there are many people that are more incline to just smile and nod rather than arguing. Probably the geographical location of these is not really important. They're equally distributed across the globe

yesco 3y ago
No, because the government doesn't need to demonize communism to make it sound dumb. Hell if anything, the contrarian nature of Americans caused many to entertain the idea after witnessing the demonization, which makes it basically the opposite of China's situation.
- ausudhz 3y ago
  > No, because the government doesn't need to demonize communism to make it sound dumb true, because the citizens of these countries are already uninformed enough about communism that they are indeed the one that make it sound dumb
saiya-jin 3y ago
As somebody who intimately saw on my closest ones and everybody else various horrible things that communism does to society and every single individual in it, and how the legacy of it can't be shed easily even after decades and multiple generations, you don't need to demonize communism a slightest bit . Just point out well known facts, in balanced manner, and that's more than enough.
- Kye 3y ago
  After a lifetime of being on the boot end of capitalism, I don't think communist systems are special in being full of horrors. I don't think the particular system humans use to justify those horrors is the issue.
  - HL33tibCe7 3y ago
    This kind of whataboutery is an ignorant and insulting to people who’ve actually had to live through the horrors of communism, which are on a different order of magnitude to the horrors of capitalism, bad as they might be.
    - Kye 3y ago
      I have yet to see a single example of a horror done under any modern human system that wasn't done under every system before and next to it. If I'm ignorant, it's a failure to persuade on the part of people who have a special hatred of communism.
      - decremental 3y ago
        [dead]
  - misja111 3y ago
    Sure, tell that to the relatives of the 4 million Ukrainians who died during Stalin's farming reforms, to the 2 million Chinese who died during the Cultural Revolution, or to the 2 million Cambodian victims under Pol Pot.
    - Kye 3y ago
      I could rattle off a list with similar numbers for capitalism (or proportional numbers for older systems), too. This does not persuade anyone who isn't already in the choir that your pet gripe is special. Humans do horrible stuff to each other in the name of ideology. Systems are just one of the ways they rationalize it.
      - selectodude 3y ago
        No, you really couldn't.
    - etc-hosts 3y ago
drno123 3y ago
I have lived in a country under communist rule until it fell apart in 1990. If you haven’t experienced communism first hand, you have no idea how bad it is, even the watered-down communism of 80s.
- ausudhz 3y ago
  it doesn't matter if I've experienced it or not. My comment it's not a praise to communism, perhaps just read it again (and read the context from which it started too)
misja111 3y ago
> somewhat similar to the demonization of communism that the west pushed for decades? I'm not sure what you mean with 'the west', but in Western Europe communist political parties were allowed just like any others. When I went to high school in the 80's it was even kind of fashionable to have communist sympathies. This was before the fall of the iron curtain though, once it went down it became clear how terrible communism had really been.
- ausudhz 3y ago
  that doesn't make it less demonized. Unless you forgot the media campaigns on it and the plenty of wars that started in the attempt to stop the spread of communism.
safety1st 3y ago
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- ausudhz 3y ago
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HL33tibCe7 3y ago
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- ausudhz 3y ago
  the only fool here is you that don't understand the meaning of the comment I've made. Nowhere in my comment I said that communism is good
rsynnott 3y ago
If you’re talking about McCarthyism, then yes, similar dynamic. If you’re talking about today, then don’t be silly.
- ausudhz 3y ago
  Yes I'm taking about that, you're the only one that understands it apparently. The thing is that my comment couldn't be anyhow related to today's situation (I've used the past tense) since communist doesn't exist anymore (not the way it used to) and most of the country that implemented it widely abandoned it (probably the only exception is perhaps North Korea)
joenot443 3y ago
This is a wildly off-base comparison to make, I'd be impressed if your comment stays up for long.
- ausudhz 3y ago
  I don't understand why people get so emotional when you mention the word communism It was a simple comparison point on the previous comment that, by my standard was also wildly off base (given that he said dumb to a whole country basically) the fact is that the west seems to be so attached (weirdly) to communism despite even those who implemented it already abandoned. Are you scared of ghosts or what?
  - nradov 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - JuanPosadas 3y ago
      That's nothing compared to the 20 million per year that died under capitalism.
      - spidersenses 3y ago
        >That's nothing compared to the 20 million per year that died under capitalism. Died at an old age, surrounded by loved ones? In contrast to Gulags, secret executions, and man-caused famines?
      - joenot443 3y ago
        I'm glad you mentioned that! Plenty of Wikipedia users much more knowledgable on the topic than you or I had a lengthy discussion on whether it makes sense to try and make such comparisons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes#Mass_killings_by_capitalist_authoritarian_governments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mass_killings_under_commu... The answer, as one would expect, is that it's an entirely pointless exercise, largely used as a coping mechanism for recovering communists.
AbrahamParangi 3y ago
The "demonization" of communism is wholly deserved. Every communist country, ever has been am impoverished, totalitarian, shithole. The most successful "communist" countries are those that have given up on economic communism (China, Vietnam), though they'd be even more successful if they gave up on political communism too. The track record of communism is so insanely bad that it is literally the second worst ideology of the 20th century, beat only by facism which caused the instant self-immolation of every country to ever try it (while inflicting terrible harm on their neighbors).

yesco 3y ago

No, because the government doesn't need to demonize communism to make it sound dumb. Hell if anything, the contrarian nature of Americans caused many to entertain the idea after witnessing the demonization, which makes it basically the opposite of China's situation.

ausudhz 3y ago
> No, because the government doesn't need to demonize communism to make it sound dumb true, because the citizens of these countries are already uninformed enough about communism that they are indeed the one that make it sound dumb

saiya-jin 3y ago

As somebody who intimately saw on my closest ones and everybody else various horrible things that communism does to society and every single individual in it, and how the legacy of it can't be shed easily even after decades and multiple generations, you don't need to demonize communism a slightest bit . Just point out well known facts, in balanced manner, and that's more than enough.

Kye 3y ago
After a lifetime of being on the boot end of capitalism, I don't think communist systems are special in being full of horrors. I don't think the particular system humans use to justify those horrors is the issue.
- HL33tibCe7 3y ago
  This kind of whataboutery is an ignorant and insulting to people who’ve actually had to live through the horrors of communism, which are on a different order of magnitude to the horrors of capitalism, bad as they might be.
  - Kye 3y ago
    I have yet to see a single example of a horror done under any modern human system that wasn't done under every system before and next to it. If I'm ignorant, it's a failure to persuade on the part of people who have a special hatred of communism.
    - decremental 3y ago
      [dead]
- misja111 3y ago
  Sure, tell that to the relatives of the 4 million Ukrainians who died during Stalin's farming reforms, to the 2 million Chinese who died during the Cultural Revolution, or to the 2 million Cambodian victims under Pol Pot.
  - Kye 3y ago
    I could rattle off a list with similar numbers for capitalism (or proportional numbers for older systems), too. This does not persuade anyone who isn't already in the choir that your pet gripe is special. Humans do horrible stuff to each other in the name of ideology. Systems are just one of the ways they rationalize it.
    - selectodude 3y ago
      No, you really couldn't.
  - etc-hosts 3y ago

drno123 3y ago

I have lived in a country under communist rule until it fell apart in 1990. If you haven’t experienced communism first hand, you have no idea how bad it is, even the watered-down communism of 80s.

ausudhz 3y ago
it doesn't matter if I've experienced it or not. My comment it's not a praise to communism, perhaps just read it again (and read the context from which it started too)

misja111 3y ago

> somewhat similar to the demonization of communism that the west pushed for decades? I'm not sure what you mean with 'the west', but in Western Europe communist political parties were allowed just like any others. When I went to high school in the 80's it was even kind of fashionable to have communist sympathies. This was before the fall of the iron curtain though, once it went down it became clear how terrible communism had really been.

ausudhz 3y ago
that doesn't make it less demonized. Unless you forgot the media campaigns on it and the plenty of wars that started in the attempt to stop the spread of communism.

safety1st 3y ago

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ausudhz 3y ago
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HL33tibCe7 3y ago

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ausudhz 3y ago
the only fool here is you that don't understand the meaning of the comment I've made. Nowhere in my comment I said that communism is good

rsynnott 3y ago

If you’re talking about McCarthyism, then yes, similar dynamic. If you’re talking about today, then don’t be silly.

ausudhz 3y ago
Yes I'm taking about that, you're the only one that understands it apparently. The thing is that my comment couldn't be anyhow related to today's situation (I've used the past tense) since communist doesn't exist anymore (not the way it used to) and most of the country that implemented it widely abandoned it (probably the only exception is perhaps North Korea)

joenot443 3y ago

This is a wildly off-base comparison to make, I'd be impressed if your comment stays up for long.

ausudhz 3y ago
I don't understand why people get so emotional when you mention the word communism It was a simple comparison point on the previous comment that, by my standard was also wildly off base (given that he said dumb to a whole country basically) the fact is that the west seems to be so attached (weirdly) to communism despite even those who implemented it already abandoned. Are you scared of ghosts or what?
- nradov 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - JuanPosadas 3y ago
    That's nothing compared to the 20 million per year that died under capitalism.
    - spidersenses 3y ago
      >That's nothing compared to the 20 million per year that died under capitalism. Died at an old age, surrounded by loved ones? In contrast to Gulags, secret executions, and man-caused famines?
    - joenot443 3y ago
      I'm glad you mentioned that! Plenty of Wikipedia users much more knowledgable on the topic than you or I had a lengthy discussion on whether it makes sense to try and make such comparisons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes#Mass_killings_by_capitalist_authoritarian_governments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mass_killings_under_commu... The answer, as one would expect, is that it's an entirely pointless exercise, largely used as a coping mechanism for recovering communists.

AbrahamParangi 3y ago

The "demonization" of communism is wholly deserved. Every communist country, ever has been am impoverished, totalitarian, shithole. The most successful "communist" countries are those that have given up on economic communism (China, Vietnam), though they'd be even more successful if they gave up on political communism too. The track record of communism is so insanely bad that it is literally the second worst ideology of the 20th century, beat only by facism which caused the instant self-immolation of every country to ever try it (while inflicting terrible harm on their neighbors).