9 ms·

Jim Larkin, Backpage exec, has died

102 points by mreome 3y ago

worik 3y ago
So sad. It is so hard to fight the power. RIP
optimalsolver 3y ago
[flagged]
msie 3y ago
Sad, trying to fight politicians and DA capitalizing on moral panic.
sunk1st 3y ago
I would like to read more about the circumstances surrounding the memo that the DOJ was successful in preventing from entering as evidence.
- boomboomsubban 3y ago
  https://www.techdirt.com/2019/08/28/new-government-documents-reveal-that-backpage-was-actively-helping-law-enforcement-track-down-traffickers/ https://www.techdirt.com/2019/08/28/new-government-documents... It links to a story about it.
  - sunk1st 3y ago
    Thanks. Very sad situation. Hard to understand how those memos would be sealed away from use by the defense.
myshpa 3y ago
“unlike virtually every other website that is used for prostitution and sex trafficking, Backpage is remarkably responsive to law enforcement requests and often takes proactive steps to assist in investigations.” - DOJ "In short, contrary to the public narrative you may have heard, Backpage worked closely with federal law enforcement to actually stop sex trafficking (and not just take it down, but to track down the perpetrators). But they refused to do the same for consensual sex work and that is why the feds eventually came down on them like a ton of bricks, all while telling the media and politicians that it was for sex trafficking. But that was all bullshit."
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  From the Wired piece mentioned: > The government indictment that triggered Lacey and Larkin’s arrests, United States v. Lacey, et al., includes 17 “victim summaries”—stories of women who say they were sexually exploited through Backpage. Victim 5 first appeared in an ad on the platform when she was 14; her “customers” made her “perform sexual acts at gunpoint, choked her to the point of having seizures, and gang-raped her.” Victim 6 was stabbed to death. Victim 8’s uncle and his friends advertised her as “fetish friendly.” The indictment accuses Backpage of catering to sexual predators, of essentially helping pimps better reach their target audiences. Tough issue overall balancing free speech and legitimate consensual sex work against flagrant exploitation. My understanding is that even in jurisdictions with legalization and formalization of the work trafficking still occurs. No solutions to provide, Larkin’s suicide is still tragic and unfortunate.
  - maxbond 3y ago
    From what I've read, it seems sex workers hold that they are safer online because they are able to directly manage their relationships with clients. This enables them to enforce vetting processes before they meet up in person (impossible in the street), and eliminate abusive middle men (pimps). We could do better than Backpage, we could probably make abuse of sex workers rare rather than a cliche, but it would require decriminalization first. For instance, that would enable them to hire their own security, or to press charges against abusers (though that's is own can of worms of course). It's also usually the sex workers who are in a position to understand who is being trafficked and by whom, but they are unable to intervene effectively without institutional support.
    - vorpalhex 3y ago
      Bluntly, we tried drug decriminalization in the theory that decriminalization meant people could seek help. Instead of more people getting help, fewer did because the stick had been removed. [0] We should ask, well, does sex trafficking happen more or less in areas where prostitution is legal? That'll give us a good indicator of the effects of decriminalization. We have a great study on this [1]. Decriminalization makes sex trafficking WORSE - full stop. Prostitution means more sex trafficking happens, and crackdowns on prostitution successfully reduce sex trafficking too. [0]: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/07/oregon-drug-decriminalization-results-overdoses/674733/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/07/oregon-... [1]: https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/lids/2014/06/12/does-legalized-prostitution-increase-human-trafficking/ https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/lids/2014/06/12/does-legalized-...
the-peter 3y ago
[flagged]
hyperhello 3y ago
A Red Shirt found out too late that authorities don’t care about stopping the actual problem because then they wouldn’t be employed. There is no value in helping a department with their work unless you have something very specific to gain. Just don’t talk to them.
zoklet-enjoyer 3y ago
[flagged]
- myshpa 3y ago
  Cops still take more stuff from people than burglars do https://thewhyaxis.substack.com/p/cops-still-take-more-stuff-from-people https://thewhyaxis.substack.com/p/cops-still-take-more-stuff... "This process is called civil asset forfeiture, and in practice it often works very similar to highway robbery. Authorities can take literally whatever they want from you — cash, vehicles, your home, your Playstation 5 — and they can keep it, without ever convicting or even charging you with a crime. All they have to do is say they suspect you committed a crime. And here’s the kicker: if you want your stuff back, you have to go to court and affirmatively prove your innocence. Basically, you must prove a negative: that you did not commit a crime. It’s a complete inversion of the “innocent until proven guilty” philosophy driving most of the criminal justice system." "Here’s one way to think of the scale: in 2019, the most recent year for which complete federal data is available, federal authorities took more cash and property from people than burglars did."
- oaththrowaway 3y ago
  Top 3 at least
Etrnl_President 3y ago
"suicide"
tetrisgm 3y ago
Not familiar enough with the person's history to know if they did bad things, or if they were uncooperative, or simply ran a website and became a scapegoat. Anyone got insight into this?
nickpinkston 3y ago
Just throwing out there that the "trafficking" topic in the media is largely a moral panic from the culture conservatives working with the police to call all sex work trafficking, as that juices their numbers for the scale of the problem, giving both group more supports/donors while doing nothing to help victims. This is a gross mischaracterization. Here's an article by a former sex worker on this, and how decrim, Backpage, etc. are better for reducing the numbers of victims in sex work and the severity of what they deal with. https://medium.com/@cathyreisenwitz/how-to-actually-fight-trafficking-2250c5077a7 https://medium.com/@cathyreisenwitz/how-to-actually-fight-tr...
nullc 3y ago
> But I do hope that some of the people who literally built up their own profiles by demonizing Backpage and Section 230 at least take a moment to reflect on whether or not they got so caught up in the narrative they wanted that they missed what was actually happening. https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-kamala-d-harris-announces-new-criminal-charges-against https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-kama...
DoreenMichele 3y ago
However, where they drew the line was when law enforcement started demanding similar help in tracking down non-trafficking consensual sex work. It sounds like someone who took an enlightened and ethical stance who got railroaded. I haven't followed the Backpage drama but this looks to me like a win for uptight, backwards people who want to pretend their hang ups are some form of "righteousness." I'm very sad to see this article and the news that he apparently died by suicide.

102 points by mreome 3y ago

worik 3y ago

So sad. It is so hard to fight the power. RIP

optimalsolver 3y ago

[flagged]

msie 3y ago

Sad, trying to fight politicians and DA capitalizing on moral panic.

sunk1st 3y ago

I would like to read more about the circumstances surrounding the memo that the DOJ was successful in preventing from entering as evidence.

boomboomsubban 3y ago
https://www.techdirt.com/2019/08/28/new-government-documents-reveal-that-backpage-was-actively-helping-law-enforcement-track-down-traffickers/ https://www.techdirt.com/2019/08/28/new-government-documents... It links to a story about it.
- sunk1st 3y ago
  Thanks. Very sad situation. Hard to understand how those memos would be sealed away from use by the defense.

myshpa 3y ago

“unlike virtually every other website that is used for prostitution and sex trafficking, Backpage is remarkably responsive to law enforcement requests and often takes proactive steps to assist in investigations.” - DOJ "In short, contrary to the public narrative you may have heard, Backpage worked closely with federal law enforcement to actually stop sex trafficking (and not just take it down, but to track down the perpetrators). But they refused to do the same for consensual sex work and that is why the feds eventually came down on them like a ton of bricks, all while telling the media and politicians that it was for sex trafficking. But that was all bullshit."

toomuchtodo 3y ago
From the Wired piece mentioned: > The government indictment that triggered Lacey and Larkin’s arrests, United States v. Lacey, et al., includes 17 “victim summaries”—stories of women who say they were sexually exploited through Backpage. Victim 5 first appeared in an ad on the platform when she was 14; her “customers” made her “perform sexual acts at gunpoint, choked her to the point of having seizures, and gang-raped her.” Victim 6 was stabbed to death. Victim 8’s uncle and his friends advertised her as “fetish friendly.” The indictment accuses Backpage of catering to sexual predators, of essentially helping pimps better reach their target audiences. Tough issue overall balancing free speech and legitimate consensual sex work against flagrant exploitation. My understanding is that even in jurisdictions with legalization and formalization of the work trafficking still occurs. No solutions to provide, Larkin’s suicide is still tragic and unfortunate.
- maxbond 3y ago
  From what I've read, it seems sex workers hold that they are safer online because they are able to directly manage their relationships with clients. This enables them to enforce vetting processes before they meet up in person (impossible in the street), and eliminate abusive middle men (pimps). We could do better than Backpage, we could probably make abuse of sex workers rare rather than a cliche, but it would require decriminalization first. For instance, that would enable them to hire their own security, or to press charges against abusers (though that's is own can of worms of course). It's also usually the sex workers who are in a position to understand who is being trafficked and by whom, but they are unable to intervene effectively without institutional support.
  - vorpalhex 3y ago
    Bluntly, we tried drug decriminalization in the theory that decriminalization meant people could seek help. Instead of more people getting help, fewer did because the stick had been removed. [0] We should ask, well, does sex trafficking happen more or less in areas where prostitution is legal? That'll give us a good indicator of the effects of decriminalization. We have a great study on this [1]. Decriminalization makes sex trafficking WORSE - full stop. Prostitution means more sex trafficking happens, and crackdowns on prostitution successfully reduce sex trafficking too. [0]: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/07/oregon-drug-decriminalization-results-overdoses/674733/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/07/oregon-... [1]: https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/lids/2014/06/12/does-legalized-prostitution-increase-human-trafficking/ https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/lids/2014/06/12/does-legalized-...

the-peter 3y ago

[flagged]

hyperhello 3y ago

A Red Shirt found out too late that authorities don’t care about stopping the actual problem because then they wouldn’t be employed. There is no value in helping a department with their work unless you have something very specific to gain. Just don’t talk to them.

zoklet-enjoyer 3y ago

[flagged]

myshpa 3y ago
Cops still take more stuff from people than burglars do https://thewhyaxis.substack.com/p/cops-still-take-more-stuff-from-people https://thewhyaxis.substack.com/p/cops-still-take-more-stuff... "This process is called civil asset forfeiture, and in practice it often works very similar to highway robbery. Authorities can take literally whatever they want from you — cash, vehicles, your home, your Playstation 5 — and they can keep it, without ever convicting or even charging you with a crime. All they have to do is say they suspect you committed a crime. And here’s the kicker: if you want your stuff back, you have to go to court and affirmatively prove your innocence. Basically, you must prove a negative: that you did not commit a crime. It’s a complete inversion of the “innocent until proven guilty” philosophy driving most of the criminal justice system." "Here’s one way to think of the scale: in 2019, the most recent year for which complete federal data is available, federal authorities took more cash and property from people than burglars did."
oaththrowaway 3y ago
Top 3 at least

Etrnl_President 3y ago

"suicide"

tetrisgm 3y ago

Not familiar enough with the person's history to know if they did bad things, or if they were uncooperative, or simply ran a website and became a scapegoat. Anyone got insight into this?

nickpinkston 3y ago

Just throwing out there that the "trafficking" topic in the media is largely a moral panic from the culture conservatives working with the police to call all sex work trafficking, as that juices their numbers for the scale of the problem, giving both group more supports/donors while doing nothing to help victims. This is a gross mischaracterization. Here's an article by a former sex worker on this, and how decrim, Backpage, etc. are better for reducing the numbers of victims in sex work and the severity of what they deal with. https://medium.com/@cathyreisenwitz/how-to-actually-fight-trafficking-2250c5077a7 https://medium.com/@cathyreisenwitz/how-to-actually-fight-tr...

nullc 3y ago

> But I do hope that some of the people who literally built up their own profiles by demonizing Backpage and Section 230 at least take a moment to reflect on whether or not they got so caught up in the narrative they wanted that they missed what was actually happening. https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-kamala-d-harris-announces-new-criminal-charges-against https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-kama...

DoreenMichele 3y ago

However, where they drew the line was when law enforcement started demanding similar help in tracking down non-trafficking consensual sex work. It sounds like someone who took an enlightened and ethical stance who got railroaded. I haven't followed the Backpage drama but this looks to me like a win for uptight, backwards people who want to pretend their hang ups are some form of "righteousness." I'm very sad to see this article and the news that he apparently died by suicide.