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> doesn’t entitle them to my attention if you're looking at someone's website then yes they are entitled to your attention. what gave you the idea that you're

> doesn’t entitle them to my attention if you're looking at someone's website then yes they are entitled to your attention. what gave you the idea that you're entitled to consume for free content that other people payed to produce and host?

JohnFen 3y ago
> what gave you the idea that you're entitled to consume for free content that other people payed to produce and host? The fact that they made it available to be looked at in such a way, perhaps?
- brickteacup 3y ago
  They didn't, though, they made it available to be looked at alongside advertisements. HN users just love twisting themselves in circles to justify their belief that they're somehow entitled to consume content from private websites without consuming the ads that support that content. (If you don't want to see ads, there's a really simple solution: don't look at websites that display them! No one's forcing you to!)
  - hightrix 3y ago
    > If you don't want to see ads, there's a really simple solution: don't look at websites that display them! And as a user, if the person hosting the website doesn't want me to look at their content without also looking at their ads, there is a simple solution: don't serve me your content until after you force me to look at your ads. You do not get to have it both ways. Either the content is available for free and you can hope that the user also views your ads, or the content is not available for free and you can force the user to view your ads.
  - psd1 3y ago
    An individualist perspective. I believe that humans are social animals, and that a view on enshittification that ignores society is useless. Media is, IMO, holistically worse now than in the mid-90s. An individual cannot undo that. The negatives are not wished away by "no one's forcing you".
livueta 3y ago
> what gave you the idea that you're entitled to consume for free content that other people payed to produce and host? The fact that their HTTP server replied 200 OK. If they want to put up a paywall or use a different protocol they're totally free to do so, but permission was inherently granted by the act of serving the content. Acting like anyone who views a webpage has any obligations regarding how they render or reproduce it is like putting a barbecue on the side of the road with a free sign on it after hiding a bill inside, then getting mad when you don't get paid. Trying to tack on riders that fundamentally alter the mechanics of the underlying protocol is fundamentally invalid.
- Aerroon 3y ago
  You're right, permission was given. Your browser also gave all of that data to the webserver and happily shows you that ad. Both sides were voluntary.
  - livueta 3y ago
    In the case of an incorrectly configured browser, sure, but definitely not mine - which is the whole point. Once freely offered, conditions can't be imposed on use. If you don't want my browser to render content as it sees fit, don't serve the content over a protocol where that dynamic is inherent. The reason very few actually take that route is because they want to have their cake and eat it too: the openness of www/http but the monetizability of AOL-esque pseudointernet schemes. If a publisher wants to fuck off to corponet with blackjack, hookers, DRM and WEI they're more than free to do so, but traffic may not follow them. Mine certainly won't.
    - chii 3y ago
      > If you don't want my browser to render content as it sees fit, don't serve the content over a protocol where that dynamic is inherent. to play the devil's advocate, this is why google proposed the WEI (https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/blob/main/explainer.md https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/...). Be careful what you wish for...

JohnFen 3y ago

> what gave you the idea that you're entitled to consume for free content that other people payed to produce and host? The fact that they made it available to be looked at in such a way, perhaps?

brickteacup 3y ago
They didn't, though, they made it available to be looked at alongside advertisements. HN users just love twisting themselves in circles to justify their belief that they're somehow entitled to consume content from private websites without consuming the ads that support that content. (If you don't want to see ads, there's a really simple solution: don't look at websites that display them! No one's forcing you to!)
- hightrix 3y ago
  > If you don't want to see ads, there's a really simple solution: don't look at websites that display them! And as a user, if the person hosting the website doesn't want me to look at their content without also looking at their ads, there is a simple solution: don't serve me your content until after you force me to look at your ads. You do not get to have it both ways. Either the content is available for free and you can hope that the user also views your ads, or the content is not available for free and you can force the user to view your ads.
- psd1 3y ago
  An individualist perspective. I believe that humans are social animals, and that a view on enshittification that ignores society is useless. Media is, IMO, holistically worse now than in the mid-90s. An individual cannot undo that. The negatives are not wished away by "no one's forcing you".

livueta 3y ago

> what gave you the idea that you're entitled to consume for free content that other people payed to produce and host? The fact that their HTTP server replied 200 OK. If they want to put up a paywall or use a different protocol they're totally free to do so, but permission was inherently granted by the act of serving the content. Acting like anyone who views a webpage has any obligations regarding how they render or reproduce it is like putting a barbecue on the side of the road with a free sign on it after hiding a bill inside, then getting mad when you don't get paid. Trying to tack on riders that fundamentally alter the mechanics of the underlying protocol is fundamentally invalid.

Aerroon 3y ago
You're right, permission was given. Your browser also gave all of that data to the webserver and happily shows you that ad. Both sides were voluntary.
- livueta 3y ago
  In the case of an incorrectly configured browser, sure, but definitely not mine - which is the whole point. Once freely offered, conditions can't be imposed on use. If you don't want my browser to render content as it sees fit, don't serve the content over a protocol where that dynamic is inherent. The reason very few actually take that route is because they want to have their cake and eat it too: the openness of www/http but the monetizability of AOL-esque pseudointernet schemes. If a publisher wants to fuck off to corponet with blackjack, hookers, DRM and WEI they're more than free to do so, but traffic may not follow them. Mine certainly won't.
  - chii 3y ago
    > If you don't want my browser to render content as it sees fit, don't serve the content over a protocol where that dynamic is inherent. to play the devil's advocate, this is why google proposed the WEI (https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/blob/main/explainer.md https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/...). Be careful what you wish for...