4 ms·

unixy.net

by jjoe 3y ago

unixy.net

smca 3y ago
I'm happy to take a look at this for you. I also won't share any more details on this post unless you want to provide them yourself. I will reiterate that we'd like to grow with any user we have (particularly a long-tenured one!). However, we can't support businesses with excessively high chargeback rates, no matter what. Keeping chargebacks at an acceptable level is a financial obligation for every business: https://stripe.com/docs/disputes/monitoring-programs https://stripe.com/docs/disputes/monitoring-programs.
jjoe 3y ago
I hear you. This is why I've gotten on top of this. I've essentially turned Stripe automation off in my system. So each and every customer wishing to go with Stripe for payment is fraud-checked and dd'ed.
- brianwawok 3y ago
  What kind of chargeback rates were you talking to get in trouble? 10%? 5%?
  - smca 3y ago
    Using Visa monitoring program as an example here, high dispute rates thresholds are as follows: 0.75% is an early warning, 0.9% is standard and can lead to fines, 1.8% is excessive. Dispute counts and other signals are also taken into account, not just the rate. https://stripe.com/docs/disputes/monitoring-programs#vdmp https://stripe.com/docs/disputes/monitoring-programs#vdmp
    - brianwawok 3y ago
      That’s rough when some percent of users will chargeback just out of regret for the purchase without even contacting the merchant. As a SaaS app on stripe the disputes are virtually unwinnable.
      - smca 3y ago
        I don't disagree—chargebacks can be abused by end-users, especially if you don't make it easy to get a refund or your communication is lacking. That being said, Stripe doesn't own any part of the process, we're an intermediary that communicates evidence and outcomes between a cardholder and their bank. The same painful fraudulent chargeback patterns exist with any PSP. So, we make it as easy as possible to submit evidence. The cardholder's bank decides whether the chargeback is won in favor of the business or not. The card networks are aware that "friendly fraud" is increasing too, hence the introduction of Compelling Evidence 3.0 (more to come on this): https://support.stripe.com/questions/how-does-stripe-support-visa-compelling-evidence-3-0 https://support.stripe.com/questions/how-does-stripe-support....
        brianwawok 3y ago
        I do like that a lot (CE3). Seems smart. Is there a way in the stripe dashboard to see my chargeback rate? I think I’m closer to .1% than the .75% you said is a problem, but hard to know 100% how you are calculating it on recurring revenue.
        smca 3y ago
        You can see it on https://dashboard.stripe.com/radar https://dashboard.stripe.com/radar or if it's easier I prefer adding a `Dispute activity` widget to the Dashboard (https://snipboard.io/vEamVF.jpg https://snipboard.io/vEamVF.jpg).
      - figassis 3y ago
        You can make sure to always collect enough evidence such as agreeing to TOS (including date, ip/location), invoices, providing easy refund paths as well as a way to demonstrate usage, etc. you can also automate dispute evidence submission. But the business model is often what determines whether you’ll have higher cb rates. With a SaaS, maybe try a trial period and monitor is the customer actively uses the service, and make sure you notify them before you start charging. Often I signup for a trial, find out the service is useless but forget to cancel. That first charge is a prime cb candidate.

unixy.net

by jjoe 3y ago

unixy.net

smca 3y ago

I'm happy to take a look at this for you. I also won't share any more details on this post unless you want to provide them yourself. I will reiterate that we'd like to grow with any user we have (particularly a long-tenured one!). However, we can't support businesses with excessively high chargeback rates, no matter what. Keeping chargebacks at an acceptable level is a financial obligation for every business: https://stripe.com/docs/disputes/monitoring-programs https://stripe.com/docs/disputes/monitoring-programs.

jjoe 3y ago

I hear you. This is why I've gotten on top of this. I've essentially turned Stripe automation off in my system. So each and every customer wishing to go with Stripe for payment is fraud-checked and dd'ed.

brianwawok 3y ago
What kind of chargeback rates were you talking to get in trouble? 10%? 5%?
- smca 3y ago
  Using Visa monitoring program as an example here, high dispute rates thresholds are as follows: 0.75% is an early warning, 0.9% is standard and can lead to fines, 1.8% is excessive. Dispute counts and other signals are also taken into account, not just the rate. https://stripe.com/docs/disputes/monitoring-programs#vdmp https://stripe.com/docs/disputes/monitoring-programs#vdmp
  - brianwawok 3y ago
    That’s rough when some percent of users will chargeback just out of regret for the purchase without even contacting the merchant. As a SaaS app on stripe the disputes are virtually unwinnable.
    - smca 3y ago
      I don't disagree—chargebacks can be abused by end-users, especially if you don't make it easy to get a refund or your communication is lacking. That being said, Stripe doesn't own any part of the process, we're an intermediary that communicates evidence and outcomes between a cardholder and their bank. The same painful fraudulent chargeback patterns exist with any PSP. So, we make it as easy as possible to submit evidence. The cardholder's bank decides whether the chargeback is won in favor of the business or not. The card networks are aware that "friendly fraud" is increasing too, hence the introduction of Compelling Evidence 3.0 (more to come on this): https://support.stripe.com/questions/how-does-stripe-support-visa-compelling-evidence-3-0 https://support.stripe.com/questions/how-does-stripe-support....
      - brianwawok 3y ago
        I do like that a lot (CE3). Seems smart. Is there a way in the stripe dashboard to see my chargeback rate? I think I’m closer to .1% than the .75% you said is a problem, but hard to know 100% how you are calculating it on recurring revenue.
        smca 3y ago
        You can see it on https://dashboard.stripe.com/radar https://dashboard.stripe.com/radar or if it's easier I prefer adding a `Dispute activity` widget to the Dashboard (https://snipboard.io/vEamVF.jpg https://snipboard.io/vEamVF.jpg).
    - figassis 3y ago
      You can make sure to always collect enough evidence such as agreeing to TOS (including date, ip/location), invoices, providing easy refund paths as well as a way to demonstrate usage, etc. you can also automate dispute evidence submission. But the business model is often what determines whether you’ll have higher cb rates. With a SaaS, maybe try a trial period and monitor is the customer actively uses the service, and make sure you notify them before you start charging. Often I signup for a trial, find out the service is useless but forget to cancel. That first charge is a prime cb candidate.