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I have converted most of my family and friends to ff in the past month. I take my time and help them understand why the change is needed. The biggest reason th

I have converted most of my family and friends to ff in the past month. I take my time and help them understand why the change is needed. The biggest reason they were afraid to move was because they had stored years worth passwords and other setting on their browsers. Take some time and help a few people out. If everyone convert a few people and explain why they need to and help them with their issues. We can do this. Mr don't be evil has become too evil at this point.

PathfinderBot 3y ago
This is great advice! Instead of expecting non-techies to handle the migration to more ethical platforms by themselves or leaving them in the control of large corporations, us techies have an obligation to help them with such tasks.
- zelphirkalt 3y ago
  How do I help my non-techy friends to not be in control of technical decisions large organizations (I don't really have those) or to make the right decisions, while there are 10 "techy people" recommending Chrome, for every 1 privacy aware techy person like me, if not more, and these non-techy friends are not able to judge who has their best interest at heart or who knows their stuff best? How do they know who is the most knowledgeable? There is always a huge temptation to choose convenience over privacy or security. If then some technical person recommends that avenue ... And then comes along some accidental change, that breaks YouTube or GMail or whatever on Firefox ...
  - PathfinderBot 3y ago
    Thanks for asking. I haven't finished thinking it through, and I am young without much experience, but I think a possible avenue would be a return to the expectation that there is an "IT guy in the family" to help set up phones and computers for others to use. Essentially, there needs to be a culture change. There is some prior literature to this, for example https://runyourown.social/ https://runyourown.social/. In this case, the non-techies don't need to know or care much about free software, convenience vs privacy/security, who is most knowledgeable, how to not be in the control of large corporations, etc., since it'll be the techie's job to help them set up their OSes and teach them how to use the functionality that they want to use. Additionally, I am assuming that techies are principled enough and knowledgeable enough to hold their own against corporations' anti-user decisions and advertising. As a practical example, if a techie is culturally expected to buy and set up a laptop for a non tech-savvy member of the family, then the techie can simply install Tor Browser instead of Chrome and set it up to make sure it's working. Any additional instructions, if needed, can be taught via post-it notes. Humans are adaptable, and if the internet speed is acceptable via Tor, then I don't think most people would care or complain. Of course, I cannot ignore the fact that to some people this seems like a power-grab by techies, or that people's expectations of technology has changed from "oh I'll just ask the IT family member" to "I expect to be able to use <device> out of the box". But I think this is an idea worth exploring, given how flexible it is.
    - malikNF 3y ago
      > return to the expectation that there is an "IT guy in the family" to help set up phones and computers for others to use. Definitely this. This is the only way to make-sure people around us are protected. If enough tech people do this, we will have a better tech ecosystem for all of us.
  - malikNF 3y ago
    Atleast for me, I haven’t found an easy way to do it. Usually its about being the tech guy for them. I really dislike the “non techies are bad because they bother the techies for small issues” meme, surely you are not so busy as to not be able spend a hour on a loved one. Ever since a computer repair shop scammed my parents, doing tech support is something I enjoyed doing for people I know. Why know something if you cant share it with others? If something takes a considerable time to fix I will take the issue over to a shop that I trust and make-sure things are in order once its returned. Whenever I fix something or install something I explain what I am doing, and why I am doing it, and I think at least in my experience years of helping my friends and family they at this point trust me when explain to them why something is important. Everyone values their privacy everyone gets concerned when they realize how creepy some companies are.
ivolimmen 3y ago
I also do that. I even help people move away from windows to Linux. I don't force them I just explain how it works and what the differences are. And if they have issues they can always contact me. Not everyone goes for Linux some people require applications that don't work on Linux or have less good alternatives. But Firefox is an easy step.
crumpled 3y ago
I also had a lot of passwords in chrome. So, what I often do is open passwords.google.com in a Firefox tab. Just a tip for anyone who thinks they're in that situation. While switching browsers, I also adopted an open source password manager that has a Firefox plugin. Because passwords are migrating, I opted to move to a cloud-free solution. (This tip might be too much to suggest, depending on who you're trying to convert)
- azubinski 3y ago
  I really liked it because it made me smile a little
- SpacePortKnight 3y ago
  I don't like copying my passwords to clipboard becase of https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Clipboard/read https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Clipboard/r... and other clipboard hijacking techniques.
stunpix 3y ago
Ironically by killing Google you highly likely will put Mozilla into a surviving. I doubt they will figure out how to deliver any new “big” features without being able paying their talented devs without a such funding.
- tjoff 3y ago
  Just maybe, if over half of the browser market disappeared (chrome), there might be a dollar or two materializing for the remaining options.
  - tacitusarc 3y ago
    Doesn’t Google fund a lot of Mozilla’s dev work?
    - tourmalinetaco 3y ago
      Why would Google fund a competitor? On face value that doesn’t make much sense, but megacorps with so many tendrils rarely make cohesive decisions.
      - formerly_proven 3y ago
        90% or so of revenue is generated by search engine royalties, i.e. Mozilla getting paid for the choice of the default search engine (mostly Google).
    - Vinnl 3y ago
      It doesn't "fund" it - it buys its position as the default search engine in Firefox, which makes up the bulk of Mozilla's income. In this theoretical world where Google actually goes away, presumably some other company would want to pay for that position.
tomjen3 3y ago
Thats great. However in reality most sites don't care about Firefox compatibility so that is an uphill battle. Personally I switched to Brave, which has basically worked perfectly for me, other than a few sites that didn't handle blocking 3rd party cookies.
- tourmalinetaco 3y ago
  As a fellow Brave user I fear for the longterm viability of the browser. They are an ad company at the end of the day, not browser maintainers. They lack the capital and I fear technical ability to maintain a truly separate fork, which may be required in the near future. They were already railroaded into the “no JPEG-XL” decision Google made.
  - tomjen3 3y ago
    Thats fine, if it stops being useful I will switch to some other non-chrome chrome.
- kilburn 3y ago
  > most sites don't care about Firefox compatibility This is FUD. Can you please name specific sites that don't work in firefox? Even all of google's stuff works fine, particularly when seen thorugh the eyes of non-technical people.
  - tomjen3 3y ago
    office.com I got endless issues opening an app the second time. Didn't happen in Chrome. As for sites that specifically doesn't care about Firefox, that was in a private talk with another frontend developer, so I can share neither the name or a URL as proof.
deelly 3y ago
The same ff that tried to introduce their own IPA proposal year ago for tracking users across the Internet? https://adtechexplained.com/interoperable-private-attribution-ipa-explained/ https://adtechexplained.com/interoperable-private-attributio... https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KpdSKD8-Rn0bWPTu4UtK54ks0yv2j22pA5SrAD9av4s/edit https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KpdSKD8-Rn0bWPTu4UtK54ks...
rmuratov 3y ago
When something doesn't work, I think, "Let me guess, this only works on Chrome, right?". And too many times recently, I am right. As a tech-savvy person, I can handle it, but my old parents can't. I do not now the right thing to do here.

PathfinderBot 3y ago

This is great advice! Instead of expecting non-techies to handle the migration to more ethical platforms by themselves or leaving them in the control of large corporations, us techies have an obligation to help them with such tasks.

zelphirkalt 3y ago
How do I help my non-techy friends to not be in control of technical decisions large organizations (I don't really have those) or to make the right decisions, while there are 10 "techy people" recommending Chrome, for every 1 privacy aware techy person like me, if not more, and these non-techy friends are not able to judge who has their best interest at heart or who knows their stuff best? How do they know who is the most knowledgeable? There is always a huge temptation to choose convenience over privacy or security. If then some technical person recommends that avenue ... And then comes along some accidental change, that breaks YouTube or GMail or whatever on Firefox ...
- PathfinderBot 3y ago
  Thanks for asking. I haven't finished thinking it through, and I am young without much experience, but I think a possible avenue would be a return to the expectation that there is an "IT guy in the family" to help set up phones and computers for others to use. Essentially, there needs to be a culture change. There is some prior literature to this, for example https://runyourown.social/ https://runyourown.social/. In this case, the non-techies don't need to know or care much about free software, convenience vs privacy/security, who is most knowledgeable, how to not be in the control of large corporations, etc., since it'll be the techie's job to help them set up their OSes and teach them how to use the functionality that they want to use. Additionally, I am assuming that techies are principled enough and knowledgeable enough to hold their own against corporations' anti-user decisions and advertising. As a practical example, if a techie is culturally expected to buy and set up a laptop for a non tech-savvy member of the family, then the techie can simply install Tor Browser instead of Chrome and set it up to make sure it's working. Any additional instructions, if needed, can be taught via post-it notes. Humans are adaptable, and if the internet speed is acceptable via Tor, then I don't think most people would care or complain. Of course, I cannot ignore the fact that to some people this seems like a power-grab by techies, or that people's expectations of technology has changed from "oh I'll just ask the IT family member" to "I expect to be able to use <device> out of the box". But I think this is an idea worth exploring, given how flexible it is.
  - malikNF 3y ago
    > return to the expectation that there is an "IT guy in the family" to help set up phones and computers for others to use. Definitely this. This is the only way to make-sure people around us are protected. If enough tech people do this, we will have a better tech ecosystem for all of us.
- malikNF 3y ago
  Atleast for me, I haven’t found an easy way to do it. Usually its about being the tech guy for them. I really dislike the “non techies are bad because they bother the techies for small issues” meme, surely you are not so busy as to not be able spend a hour on a loved one. Ever since a computer repair shop scammed my parents, doing tech support is something I enjoyed doing for people I know. Why know something if you cant share it with others? If something takes a considerable time to fix I will take the issue over to a shop that I trust and make-sure things are in order once its returned. Whenever I fix something or install something I explain what I am doing, and why I am doing it, and I think at least in my experience years of helping my friends and family they at this point trust me when explain to them why something is important. Everyone values their privacy everyone gets concerned when they realize how creepy some companies are.

ivolimmen 3y ago

I also do that. I even help people move away from windows to Linux. I don't force them I just explain how it works and what the differences are. And if they have issues they can always contact me. Not everyone goes for Linux some people require applications that don't work on Linux or have less good alternatives. But Firefox is an easy step.

crumpled 3y ago

I also had a lot of passwords in chrome. So, what I often do is open passwords.google.com in a Firefox tab. Just a tip for anyone who thinks they're in that situation. While switching browsers, I also adopted an open source password manager that has a Firefox plugin. Because passwords are migrating, I opted to move to a cloud-free solution. (This tip might be too much to suggest, depending on who you're trying to convert)

azubinski 3y ago
I really liked it because it made me smile a little
SpacePortKnight 3y ago
I don't like copying my passwords to clipboard becase of https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Clipboard/read https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Clipboard/r... and other clipboard hijacking techniques.

stunpix 3y ago

Ironically by killing Google you highly likely will put Mozilla into a surviving. I doubt they will figure out how to deliver any new “big” features without being able paying their talented devs without a such funding.

tjoff 3y ago
Just maybe, if over half of the browser market disappeared (chrome), there might be a dollar or two materializing for the remaining options.
- tacitusarc 3y ago
  Doesn’t Google fund a lot of Mozilla’s dev work?
  - tourmalinetaco 3y ago
    Why would Google fund a competitor? On face value that doesn’t make much sense, but megacorps with so many tendrils rarely make cohesive decisions.
    - formerly_proven 3y ago
      90% or so of revenue is generated by search engine royalties, i.e. Mozilla getting paid for the choice of the default search engine (mostly Google).
  - Vinnl 3y ago
    It doesn't "fund" it - it buys its position as the default search engine in Firefox, which makes up the bulk of Mozilla's income. In this theoretical world where Google actually goes away, presumably some other company would want to pay for that position.

tomjen3 3y ago

Thats great. However in reality most sites don't care about Firefox compatibility so that is an uphill battle. Personally I switched to Brave, which has basically worked perfectly for me, other than a few sites that didn't handle blocking 3rd party cookies.

tourmalinetaco 3y ago
As a fellow Brave user I fear for the longterm viability of the browser. They are an ad company at the end of the day, not browser maintainers. They lack the capital and I fear technical ability to maintain a truly separate fork, which may be required in the near future. They were already railroaded into the “no JPEG-XL” decision Google made.
- tomjen3 3y ago
  Thats fine, if it stops being useful I will switch to some other non-chrome chrome.
kilburn 3y ago
> most sites don't care about Firefox compatibility This is FUD. Can you please name specific sites that don't work in firefox? Even all of google's stuff works fine, particularly when seen thorugh the eyes of non-technical people.
- tomjen3 3y ago
  office.com I got endless issues opening an app the second time. Didn't happen in Chrome. As for sites that specifically doesn't care about Firefox, that was in a private talk with another frontend developer, so I can share neither the name or a URL as proof.

deelly 3y ago

The same ff that tried to introduce their own IPA proposal year ago for tracking users across the Internet? https://adtechexplained.com/interoperable-private-attribution-ipa-explained/ https://adtechexplained.com/interoperable-private-attributio... https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KpdSKD8-Rn0bWPTu4UtK54ks0yv2j22pA5SrAD9av4s/edit https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KpdSKD8-Rn0bWPTu4UtK54ks...

rmuratov 3y ago

When something doesn't work, I think, "Let me guess, this only works on Chrome, right?". And too many times recently, I am right. As a tech-savvy person, I can handle it, but my old parents can't. I do not now the right thing to do here.