7 ms·

Ask HN: For 10 years I've been trying various projects, still clueless

41 points by superdario 3y ago

I have a lot of experience with side-projects and startups. I will briefly explain my experience. I'm coming from small eastern European country, so my perspective on everything might be different. 1. My country is too small and market is small. You can do something here, but everything is so limited that it's terrible. 3.5M people and then when you target certain people who wants your product or service or app or website, you get super small amount of people 2. The Balkans (group of countries around my country where people speak the same language) is a better story, but every nation is so isolated. I asked yourself, how often do I use products/app/websites from the other countries and vice versa? Very rarely. Every country is in its own bubble. 3. European market. Every country has its own language, culture, mentality, etc. it's hard to get into those countries especially if you don't know the lang. 4. The US market is great because it's unified, it's easier to go viral, the language is the same, purchasing power is great, but it's a bit of a problem because me as an European don't know their habits and thinking, I have no connections or friends there, I don't know where and how to start. The market is saturated, something is happening there all the time, and now you have to break through with something new. 5. The UK is ok market, they are more related and similar to the USA. For example OnlyFans is from the UK, MillionDollarHomePage the same etc. I had quite a lot of partners, it didn't really work out. But I think it's me, I think I function better alone. Everything I tried failed, and I tried exactly in those countries that I mentioned. Worst of all, I wasn't persistent enough. I have the feeling like I'm trying impossible. I had no money or capital, everything I did I relied on word of mouth, but that's shit. Without good capital that will support the marketing, it's all a shot in a dark. Sounds like I'm complaining here or trying to find excuses but I'm not, I'm still trying to make it. I'm just confused, I don't know what to pursue, where to try, which market to try

dave333 3y ago
Some areas don't depend much or at all on language such as games and puzzles e.g. Rubik's Cube from Hungary. However creating a viral game is hard. Some niches are easier and less demanding such as daily puzzles for seniors or bedtime story sites for parents with young children just use Google translate or it's API.
Jimmc414 3y ago
"The brick walls are there for a reason: they let us prove how badly we want things" - Randy Pausch, The Last Lecture https://www.cmu.edu/randyslecture/ https://www.cmu.edu/randyslecture/
namanyayg 3y ago
What all have you tried and how did each of them fail?
- superdario 3y ago
  Blitzer - hangout application, you put a pin on the map that is active for up to 1 hour and then you can meet people for anything. The problem was the geolocation, because it is hyper-geolocated so I would need to get many people in one small place, like one city. Mimic - if you know what TikTok has duets now, Mimic was supposed to be that before TikTok existed where you imitate a person, mimicking person. The problem was marketing, no budget and no idea how to market. xoxoSnap - what OnlyFans is now, xoxoSnap used to be where these models could sell their content, but without a subscription. I gave up without a reason, but I had interested models. This was the worst decision I made with my projects. SMS Schedule - enable people to automatically send some SMS at a certain time, such as for someone's birthday or Christmas, so that you never forget to congratulate someone. I didn't feel like it would be used. Gay sex site - Current gay dating is all about sex but covered as dating. So I wanted to make it what it actually is, about sex. Mostly profiles are empty without pics so I wanted to tackle that problem. The problem is again location, need to get people from one city otherwise website makes no sense. JustBelievers - OnlyFans for believers. Type to subscribe to a priest or pastor who preaches. Nobody was interested Timechat - a chat application that forces you to answer as soon as possible, otherwise you lose points and fall in the ranking. I didn't do it because I didn't know how to promote it PhantomChat - a chat that has no history, there is already a bunch of it CryptoAdults - OnlyFans with crypto. Not working because crypto isn't really used and it's complicated for people A website selling fetish stuff like farts in a bottle, panties, piss and so on. I didn't make it because I want to find supply before I look for demand. So I need to connect with women who want to sell those things. But then again why would they do it through my site when they can do it via IG or Twitter
  - bags43 3y ago
    Dude you need to find girlfriend and normal 9-17h job. All these ideas just show how immature you are. My advice is to find real problem that people have in that region and try to solve it.
js4ever 3y ago
Focus on B2B products, if you are able to convince 5 customers to pay 5k per month or 50 customers to pay 500/month it's enough for you as a solo entrepreneur. B2C is another beast and indeed needs tons of capital.
- superdario 3y ago
  Isn't B2B even harder when you have to convince businesses to use your product instead of existing one, so they have to completely move to your product. Then of course attend the meetings with them and so on. I'm not a salesman and for me it would be mission impossible. I don't feel comfortable in that role and I'm bad at it
  - julienreszka 3y ago
    You can make one feature that is lacking and that customers want. Usually the big competitors have apis and plugins so you just integrate it to the larger product
  - DougN7 3y ago
    Businesses, especially big businesses, are just people with a problem. The nice thing is they’re not spending their personal money so they’re more flexible. If you want to take over their billing system, that is a huge project and will take lots of meetings and time and you’ll fight huge companies. So focus on a small problem those people have - keeping track of one single resource, updating printer drivers, a desktop pop-up notification when the printer is low on ink, etc, etc. A $1 million market is too small for big businesses to chase but can make you quite comfortable.
tudorw 3y ago
'I have the feeling like I'm trying impossible', with no resources, network or prior successes, you pretty much are, this is not to put you off, but to acknowledge that what you experience is common to a lot of people. Having great ideas, being able to code, understanding markets, understanding promotions and advertising, knowing how to craft and ship a product to your market is all well and good, however, look at the 'success' stories in detail, not to detract from the hard work and oft deserved success, on the whole there are some supporting factors that enabled the business, networks, grants, money, connections, wealthy family or friends or all the above. I'm saying this not because I am mean, but to share that your experience is perhaps not so different to others around the world. 'I think I function better alone' I'd say this is going to need addressing, I work great when I am on my own... however, to get paid... at the bare minimum I need to function with a client, so there's 2 of us. Don't base future opportunity on previous partners, finding a partner is very hard, but in your situation, sounds like it might be a good plan, perhaps you could just make a few notes to yourself about previous partners, strengths and weaknesses, try and identify some core principles that you'd need a partner to fulfil. To find that partner you are going to need to get out there, I would suggest that a partner from a non-technical area who has good knowledge of a business or user need, perhaps some experience in running a small business and demonstrated skills at networking and making new connections. Re-reading your story, perhaps 1) reveals opportunity, perhaps there is a hyper-niche market you could address locally, perhaps one known to rely on your local language, unsupported by tools aimed at other markets, where the market would be accessible and your local knowledge an asset. If you could find 20 customers paying $300 a month would $72,000 a year enable you to grow?
- superdario 3y ago
  There is some niche in my market that I'm trying to tackle and it's fun for me, I'm enjoying it. I will definitely try that one, but the problem is that mentality of people in my country is that they are so unwilling to pay for something or try, most people are like: "Do I need to pay for this? If yes, then I'm not going to".
  - ipaddr 3y ago
    Then stop trying to sell a product and give one away.
WheelsAtLarge 3y ago
Doing it alone is a big disadvantage. You need people with diverse backgrounds to get a business running for the most part. You are the tech brain now focus on finding someone that can sell and manage a business structure. All countries have businesses so it's possible where you live. Start small so you can figure out what it takes to have a continuing business then build upon that.
- superdario 3y ago
  I agree, definitely harder working alone. So far I spent energy on my partners trying to keep them motivated, trying to make them work and constantly pinging them, it was time, energy and motivation wasting, I could have focused on the project itself instead. It happens all the time. Even when I had a partner with their own project. They start super motivated and within a month they drop and stop contacting me, so I have to contact them to work on their own project. Either they don't have time so I do all the work
giantbanana 3y ago
[dead]
dionys 3y ago
I've had similar experience, also coming from a small Eastern European country. It feels like the market within the country is not big enough, including two nearby countries improves the situation, but you still need to deal with the language differences. To me it just feels there's not enough money, both from the possible customers as well as from investors. My current employer is originally from the UK, but they started in the US. That included a corp in Delaware alongside the main office in the UK. The product is B2B and it worked quite well in the US, but expanding to European customers in the recent years has been more complex. Luckily since it's a B2B product, the language differences are less pronounced. The product itself is only provided in English and luckily we have European CS colleagues so we can offer support in other languages as well. I think the main challenge in this space was that in the US there was only 2-3 big players who we partnered with initially. In Europe, each country has 5 of them and each of them work slightly differently. The company never needed outside investment, we kept lean for a very long time and we were profitable very early on. My recommendation - focus on US, English-speaking customers first. If you can, do B2B and provide excellent customer support. B2B customers have different expectations, but they are also easier to deal with from my experience. If you can, try to bootstrap and become profitable as soon as possible.
- superdario 3y ago
  Isn't B2B even harder when you have to convince businesses to use your product instead of existing one, so they have to completely move to your product. Then of course attend the meetings with them and so on. I'm not a salesman and for me it would be mission impossible
  - dionys 3y ago
    Maybe it really depends on the industry and the size of your clients. But if you target small/medium business, they won't have crazy enterprise requirements. Of course they will want a good product and something that fits their criteria. But often times they won't need to replace their whole X solution, they just might need a small API/plugin that connects their platform with Y. I'm not a salesman either, but I think it's easier to persuade 1 business person to spend $400/mo on your solution rather than persuading 100 individuals to pay you $4/mo. Individuals (even I'm like this) tend to have high, almost unreasonable, standards for the quality of service you get for $4 per month. Comparatively I think for a lot of business, $400 a month is nothing.
beardyw 3y ago
> how often do I use products/app/websites from the other countries Well, if the product is web based, the answer would be "am I likely to know?". As to your market, you are well placed to do business in the Balkans in a way that a US start up is not - the opposite is not so true. Your appreciation of varying conditions in other countries is also to your advantage. If you make progress you will be less likely to have big companies trying to stifle you. > Worst of all, I wasn't persistent enough. You need to overcome that! I had big plans for a subscription based product. But early on I realised that growth was likely linear and cancellations would be proportional. As a mathematician I could see that would tend to a limit. But I persevered, and even though I was right I got a decent income from it until I retired. Modest growth beats none at all.
kebsup 3y ago
I'm from central Europe and while I agree with some of your points, I see it as an advantage. If I manage to get 1-2k in passive income, it would completely cover my expenses, so the bar for success is much lower than in the US.
- superdario 3y ago
  That is true, I lowered by bar also. Right now I think the same as you, even though it will not satisfy my appetite in a long run
DougN7 3y ago
It sounds like you believe in “overnight success” which only exists via lottery tickets (with similar odds). I spent 10 years of weekend and evenings before my product sales could support me comfortably full time. That was a single project. When you’re small/starting out, your only competitive advantage is persistence and patience. If you somehow MUST be the next tech billionaire, move to Silicon Valley and try there. Or buy lottery tickets.
go_discover 3y ago
I know you said you aren't looking for partners but if you change your mind I would like to build something with you. Contact me at t0v2v5njk@mozmail.com

41 points by superdario 3y ago

dave333 3y ago

Some areas don't depend much or at all on language such as games and puzzles e.g. Rubik's Cube from Hungary. However creating a viral game is hard. Some niches are easier and less demanding such as daily puzzles for seniors or bedtime story sites for parents with young children just use Google translate or it's API.

Jimmc414 3y ago

"The brick walls are there for a reason: they let us prove how badly we want things" - Randy Pausch, The Last Lecture https://www.cmu.edu/randyslecture/ https://www.cmu.edu/randyslecture/

namanyayg 3y ago

What all have you tried and how did each of them fail?

superdario 3y ago
Blitzer - hangout application, you put a pin on the map that is active for up to 1 hour and then you can meet people for anything. The problem was the geolocation, because it is hyper-geolocated so I would need to get many people in one small place, like one city. Mimic - if you know what TikTok has duets now, Mimic was supposed to be that before TikTok existed where you imitate a person, mimicking person. The problem was marketing, no budget and no idea how to market. xoxoSnap - what OnlyFans is now, xoxoSnap used to be where these models could sell their content, but without a subscription. I gave up without a reason, but I had interested models. This was the worst decision I made with my projects. SMS Schedule - enable people to automatically send some SMS at a certain time, such as for someone's birthday or Christmas, so that you never forget to congratulate someone. I didn't feel like it would be used. Gay sex site - Current gay dating is all about sex but covered as dating. So I wanted to make it what it actually is, about sex. Mostly profiles are empty without pics so I wanted to tackle that problem. The problem is again location, need to get people from one city otherwise website makes no sense. JustBelievers - OnlyFans for believers. Type to subscribe to a priest or pastor who preaches. Nobody was interested Timechat - a chat application that forces you to answer as soon as possible, otherwise you lose points and fall in the ranking. I didn't do it because I didn't know how to promote it PhantomChat - a chat that has no history, there is already a bunch of it CryptoAdults - OnlyFans with crypto. Not working because crypto isn't really used and it's complicated for people A website selling fetish stuff like farts in a bottle, panties, piss and so on. I didn't make it because I want to find supply before I look for demand. So I need to connect with women who want to sell those things. But then again why would they do it through my site when they can do it via IG or Twitter
- bags43 3y ago
  Dude you need to find girlfriend and normal 9-17h job. All these ideas just show how immature you are. My advice is to find real problem that people have in that region and try to solve it.

js4ever 3y ago

Focus on B2B products, if you are able to convince 5 customers to pay 5k per month or 50 customers to pay 500/month it's enough for you as a solo entrepreneur. B2C is another beast and indeed needs tons of capital.

superdario 3y ago
Isn't B2B even harder when you have to convince businesses to use your product instead of existing one, so they have to completely move to your product. Then of course attend the meetings with them and so on. I'm not a salesman and for me it would be mission impossible. I don't feel comfortable in that role and I'm bad at it
- julienreszka 3y ago
  You can make one feature that is lacking and that customers want. Usually the big competitors have apis and plugins so you just integrate it to the larger product
- DougN7 3y ago
  Businesses, especially big businesses, are just people with a problem. The nice thing is they’re not spending their personal money so they’re more flexible. If you want to take over their billing system, that is a huge project and will take lots of meetings and time and you’ll fight huge companies. So focus on a small problem those people have - keeping track of one single resource, updating printer drivers, a desktop pop-up notification when the printer is low on ink, etc, etc. A $1 million market is too small for big businesses to chase but can make you quite comfortable.

tudorw 3y ago

'I have the feeling like I'm trying impossible', with no resources, network or prior successes, you pretty much are, this is not to put you off, but to acknowledge that what you experience is common to a lot of people. Having great ideas, being able to code, understanding markets, understanding promotions and advertising, knowing how to craft and ship a product to your market is all well and good, however, look at the 'success' stories in detail, not to detract from the hard work and oft deserved success, on the whole there are some supporting factors that enabled the business, networks, grants, money, connections, wealthy family or friends or all the above. I'm saying this not because I am mean, but to share that your experience is perhaps not so different to others around the world. 'I think I function better alone' I'd say this is going to need addressing, I work great when I am on my own... however, to get paid... at the bare minimum I need to function with a client, so there's 2 of us. Don't base future opportunity on previous partners, finding a partner is very hard, but in your situation, sounds like it might be a good plan, perhaps you could just make a few notes to yourself about previous partners, strengths and weaknesses, try and identify some core principles that you'd need a partner to fulfil. To find that partner you are going to need to get out there, I would suggest that a partner from a non-technical area who has good knowledge of a business or user need, perhaps some experience in running a small business and demonstrated skills at networking and making new connections. Re-reading your story, perhaps 1) reveals opportunity, perhaps there is a hyper-niche market you could address locally, perhaps one known to rely on your local language, unsupported by tools aimed at other markets, where the market would be accessible and your local knowledge an asset. If you could find 20 customers paying $300 a month would $72,000 a year enable you to grow?

superdario 3y ago
There is some niche in my market that I'm trying to tackle and it's fun for me, I'm enjoying it. I will definitely try that one, but the problem is that mentality of people in my country is that they are so unwilling to pay for something or try, most people are like: "Do I need to pay for this? If yes, then I'm not going to".
- ipaddr 3y ago
  Then stop trying to sell a product and give one away.

WheelsAtLarge 3y ago

Doing it alone is a big disadvantage. You need people with diverse backgrounds to get a business running for the most part. You are the tech brain now focus on finding someone that can sell and manage a business structure. All countries have businesses so it's possible where you live. Start small so you can figure out what it takes to have a continuing business then build upon that.

superdario 3y ago
I agree, definitely harder working alone. So far I spent energy on my partners trying to keep them motivated, trying to make them work and constantly pinging them, it was time, energy and motivation wasting, I could have focused on the project itself instead. It happens all the time. Even when I had a partner with their own project. They start super motivated and within a month they drop and stop contacting me, so I have to contact them to work on their own project. Either they don't have time so I do all the work

giantbanana 3y ago

[dead]

dionys 3y ago

I've had similar experience, also coming from a small Eastern European country. It feels like the market within the country is not big enough, including two nearby countries improves the situation, but you still need to deal with the language differences. To me it just feels there's not enough money, both from the possible customers as well as from investors. My current employer is originally from the UK, but they started in the US. That included a corp in Delaware alongside the main office in the UK. The product is B2B and it worked quite well in the US, but expanding to European customers in the recent years has been more complex. Luckily since it's a B2B product, the language differences are less pronounced. The product itself is only provided in English and luckily we have European CS colleagues so we can offer support in other languages as well. I think the main challenge in this space was that in the US there was only 2-3 big players who we partnered with initially. In Europe, each country has 5 of them and each of them work slightly differently. The company never needed outside investment, we kept lean for a very long time and we were profitable very early on. My recommendation - focus on US, English-speaking customers first. If you can, do B2B and provide excellent customer support. B2B customers have different expectations, but they are also easier to deal with from my experience. If you can, try to bootstrap and become profitable as soon as possible.

superdario 3y ago
Isn't B2B even harder when you have to convince businesses to use your product instead of existing one, so they have to completely move to your product. Then of course attend the meetings with them and so on. I'm not a salesman and for me it would be mission impossible
- dionys 3y ago
  Maybe it really depends on the industry and the size of your clients. But if you target small/medium business, they won't have crazy enterprise requirements. Of course they will want a good product and something that fits their criteria. But often times they won't need to replace their whole X solution, they just might need a small API/plugin that connects their platform with Y. I'm not a salesman either, but I think it's easier to persuade 1 business person to spend $400/mo on your solution rather than persuading 100 individuals to pay you $4/mo. Individuals (even I'm like this) tend to have high, almost unreasonable, standards for the quality of service you get for $4 per month. Comparatively I think for a lot of business, $400 a month is nothing.

beardyw 3y ago

> how often do I use products/app/websites from the other countries Well, if the product is web based, the answer would be "am I likely to know?". As to your market, you are well placed to do business in the Balkans in a way that a US start up is not - the opposite is not so true. Your appreciation of varying conditions in other countries is also to your advantage. If you make progress you will be less likely to have big companies trying to stifle you. > Worst of all, I wasn't persistent enough. You need to overcome that! I had big plans for a subscription based product. But early on I realised that growth was likely linear and cancellations would be proportional. As a mathematician I could see that would tend to a limit. But I persevered, and even though I was right I got a decent income from it until I retired. Modest growth beats none at all.

kebsup 3y ago

I'm from central Europe and while I agree with some of your points, I see it as an advantage. If I manage to get 1-2k in passive income, it would completely cover my expenses, so the bar for success is much lower than in the US.

superdario 3y ago
That is true, I lowered by bar also. Right now I think the same as you, even though it will not satisfy my appetite in a long run

DougN7 3y ago

It sounds like you believe in “overnight success” which only exists via lottery tickets (with similar odds). I spent 10 years of weekend and evenings before my product sales could support me comfortably full time. That was a single project. When you’re small/starting out, your only competitive advantage is persistence and patience. If you somehow MUST be the next tech billionaire, move to Silicon Valley and try there. Or buy lottery tickets.

go_discover 3y ago

I know you said you aren't looking for partners but if you change your mind I would like to build something with you. Contact me at t0v2v5njk@mozmail.com