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I'm not familiar with this notion (or much of German's political scene). Can you elaborate why the Greens are known fronts for the CIA there? (as in, what are g

I'm not familiar with this notion (or much of German's political scene). Can you elaborate why the Greens are known fronts for the CIA there? (as in, what are giveaways?)

rainworld 3y ago
The way they immediately threw away their pacifism in favour of US-led interventionism when the Cold War ended. Unsurprisingly, it was also them screaming for military support for Ukraine instead of pushing for talks. Scholz at least feigned reluctance for a while. The deindustrialization of Germany they are spearheading. Remember, in the words of its first Secretary General, the purpose of NATO (and US posture towards Europe in general) is “to keep the Soviet Union out, the Americans in, and the Germans down.” That has not substantially changed. A hypothetical alliance between Germany and Russia is a nightmare for them and they would (and in fact do) go to great lengths to prevent it.
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- bitsinthesky 3y ago
  Remember, you can't support freedom, security, civil society, quality of life and democracy for Eastern Europeans unless you're paid off by the CIA And the economic and political heavy weight of the EU, Germany, would only be stronger if NATO wasn't oppressing them
- watwut 3y ago
  > Unsurprisingly, it was also them screaming for military support for Ukraine instead of pushing for talks. Maaaan, that is just in the interest of Germany and generally any Western country. It was also the only moral and ethical position. One does not need to be paid by CIA to see this invasion and genocide for what they are.
  - rainworld 3y ago
    It was also the only moral and ethical position. If you think it through, the only reasons this “I’m a pacifist but” dime store morality can be entertained at all is because of the idea that Ukraine is winning, and because Western audiences (and to an extent even Ukrainian) have largely been isolated from the true costs of this war (to both sides; and also to Western economies and arsenals). Ukraine is winning I do not intend to litigate this again right now; we’re going to find out, most likely within a year, probably less. Should Ukraine in fact lose, I hope you will remember then that a generous deal was on the table (no loss of territory except obviously Crimea), and so hundreds of thousands will have died (and in fact have already) for much less than nothing. I'll leave you with this: https://twitter.com/mdfzeh/status/1679909338276671488 https://twitter.com/mdfzeh/status/1679909338276671488
    - _kbh_ 3y ago
      > If you think it through, the only reasons this “I’m a pacifist but” dime store morality can be entertained at all is because of the idea that Ukraine is winning, and because Western audiences (and to an extent even Ukrainian) have largely been isolated from the true costs of this war (to both sides; and also to Western economies and arsenals). So your telling me if your family was in the occupied parts of Ukraine, being tortured by the Russians, raped, etc you’d be happy to hand over that territory to the Russians and just let it all go?. > Should Ukraine in fact lose, I hope you will remember then that a generous deal was on the table (no loss of territory except obviously Crimea), and so hundreds of thousands will have died (and in fact have already) for much less than nothing. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians haven’t died yet so you’ll have to wait a bit longer for that to come true im afraid. > I'll leave you with this: https://twitter.com/mdfzeh/status/1679909338276671488 https://twitter.com/mdfzeh/status/1679909338276671488 Plenty of bad things have happened in the war in Ukraine for Ukraine that was covered by real media. Yet you pick a tweet from a Russian propaganda account.
      - rainworld 3y ago
        Atrocity propaganda is great for eliminating opposition at home. It doesn’t win you a war, though. And it bears repeating: the thing about wars is you actually have to win them. The curious thing is that historically it’s always the good guys that have won, so I’m certain the Russians will not only prevail militarily but also in the moral dimension.
- q87b 3y ago
  And where is the alleged connection to the CIA there? The quote you pulled from the first(!) Secretary General of NATO is from 80 years ago. At the time it was said, 80 years ago was 1870, shortly after the American Civil War, just to give some perspective.

I'm not familiar with this notion (or much of German's political scene). Can you elaborate why the Greens are known fronts for the CIA there? (as in, what are giveaways?)

rainworld 3y ago

The way they immediately threw away their pacifism in favour of US-led interventionism when the Cold War ended. Unsurprisingly, it was also them screaming for military support for Ukraine instead of pushing for talks. Scholz at least feigned reluctance for a while. The deindustrialization of Germany they are spearheading. Remember, in the words of its first Secretary General, the purpose of NATO (and US posture towards Europe in general) is “to keep the Soviet Union out, the Americans in, and the Germans down.” That has not substantially changed. A hypothetical alliance between Germany and Russia is a nightmare for them and they would (and in fact do) go to great lengths to prevent it.

deleted 3y ago
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bitsinthesky 3y ago
Remember, you can't support freedom, security, civil society, quality of life and democracy for Eastern Europeans unless you're paid off by the CIA And the economic and political heavy weight of the EU, Germany, would only be stronger if NATO wasn't oppressing them
watwut 3y ago
> Unsurprisingly, it was also them screaming for military support for Ukraine instead of pushing for talks. Maaaan, that is just in the interest of Germany and generally any Western country. It was also the only moral and ethical position. One does not need to be paid by CIA to see this invasion and genocide for what they are.
- rainworld 3y ago
  It was also the only moral and ethical position. If you think it through, the only reasons this “I’m a pacifist but” dime store morality can be entertained at all is because of the idea that Ukraine is winning, and because Western audiences (and to an extent even Ukrainian) have largely been isolated from the true costs of this war (to both sides; and also to Western economies and arsenals). Ukraine is winning I do not intend to litigate this again right now; we’re going to find out, most likely within a year, probably less. Should Ukraine in fact lose, I hope you will remember then that a generous deal was on the table (no loss of territory except obviously Crimea), and so hundreds of thousands will have died (and in fact have already) for much less than nothing. I'll leave you with this: https://twitter.com/mdfzeh/status/1679909338276671488 https://twitter.com/mdfzeh/status/1679909338276671488
  - _kbh_ 3y ago
    > If you think it through, the only reasons this “I’m a pacifist but” dime store morality can be entertained at all is because of the idea that Ukraine is winning, and because Western audiences (and to an extent even Ukrainian) have largely been isolated from the true costs of this war (to both sides; and also to Western economies and arsenals). So your telling me if your family was in the occupied parts of Ukraine, being tortured by the Russians, raped, etc you’d be happy to hand over that territory to the Russians and just let it all go?. > Should Ukraine in fact lose, I hope you will remember then that a generous deal was on the table (no loss of territory except obviously Crimea), and so hundreds of thousands will have died (and in fact have already) for much less than nothing. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians haven’t died yet so you’ll have to wait a bit longer for that to come true im afraid. > I'll leave you with this: https://twitter.com/mdfzeh/status/1679909338276671488 https://twitter.com/mdfzeh/status/1679909338276671488 Plenty of bad things have happened in the war in Ukraine for Ukraine that was covered by real media. Yet you pick a tweet from a Russian propaganda account.
    - rainworld 3y ago
      Atrocity propaganda is great for eliminating opposition at home. It doesn’t win you a war, though. And it bears repeating: the thing about wars is you actually have to win them. The curious thing is that historically it’s always the good guys that have won, so I’m certain the Russians will not only prevail militarily but also in the moral dimension.
q87b 3y ago
And where is the alleged connection to the CIA there? The quote you pulled from the first(!) Secretary General of NATO is from 80 years ago. At the time it was said, 80 years ago was 1870, shortly after the American Civil War, just to give some perspective.