6 ms·

Do government unions not try to maximize their profits from the public or am I missing something?

by dffdsa432 3y ago

figmert 3y ago
Those in the unions are the public.
- Findeton 3y ago
  There are way more customers outside the unions that inside.
- dffdsa432 3y ago
  Using your faulty logic, the owners of the privatized corporations are public citizens too.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > Those in the unions are the public This is a nonsense delineation in systems thinking. That railroad shareholders are also the public doesn't justify ripping them off. Unions are beholden to the same impulses towards monopoly and rent-seeking as corporations. Swap members (i.e. sellers of labour) for shareholders (i.e. sellers of capital) and employers (i.e. buyers of labour) for customers (i.e. buyers of goods and services) and union management starts looking remarkably like its corporate analog, churning undifferentiated workers into a differentiated and thus premium block of labour as truly as a mill grinds forests into houses.
  - arethuza 3y ago
    "That railroad shareholders are also the public" They are the public, just not the UK public!
  - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
    > railroad shareholders are also the public Lets see the shareholders: * French government * Chinese government * Australian banks
  - 5822130027 3y ago
    [dead]
  - giraffe_lady 3y ago
    "If you change every detail of both things they're the same thing!" Labor and capital aren't the same concept no matter how much you scramble them. One is powerful enough that the entire system is named after it.
jdasdf 3y ago
They do!
lostlogin 3y ago
You look at these crappy companies and the problem you see is unionised staff? Have you seen the dividends and bonuses at Thames Water, or read the article posted here?
- dffdsa432 3y ago
  Thames Water's CEO has a $1.5 million pay package which is lower than CEOs of corporations of the same size. The funding for public unions in the UK is $233 billion. Great comparison there.
  - arethuza 3y ago
    CEOs of corporations of the same size quite often have to find and retain customers in competitive markets - which is hardly the case with Thames Water?
    - dffdsa432 3y ago
      What is your point? $1.5 million is used to attract a CEO who can manage a large corporation. That is less than many players on second tier English clubs who are riding the pine. That is a rounding error when considering $233 billion paid to unions.
      - rightbyte 3y ago
        CEOs have almost no competitive pressure. They are mostly recruited within the upper class. Paying more won't net you a better one.
        darkclouds 3y ago
        >CEOs have almost no competitive pressure. Yes they do, from rival businesses, superior and new technology, just look at Chat-GPT potentially putting programmers out of work, or telegrams being made redundant by pagers, and text messages and email. @arethuza >CEOs of corporations of the same size quite often have to find and retain customers in competitive markets - which is hardly the case with Thames Water? Water companies are delivering a minimum standard of water, call it the least toxic form of water considering the energy constraints and logistics of delivering water en-masse compared to other methods of obtaining water. Mains water from a very young age always made me sick, so where possible I use bottled spring water in the kettle, but am currently considering a reverse osmosis water filter, to deionise the water in the house as much as possible. Deionised water is the best tasting, sweetest tasting water I've ever experienced, and if I listened to the medical experts I should be dead on numerous counts of their assertations. So two fingers up to them as well! LOL
lozenge 3y ago
Employees of private companies.. can also join unions! Gasp!
- dffdsa432 3y ago
  Yes, and? Unions of both sectors try to maximize their profits. Which do not?
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    As we saw with the recent US rail strike threats, unions do not maximize member profit, but rather member satisfaction. They didn't want more money

Do government unions not try to maximize their profits from the public or am I missing something?

figmert 3y ago

Those in the unions are the public.

Findeton 3y ago
There are way more customers outside the unions that inside.
dffdsa432 3y ago
Using your faulty logic, the owners of the privatized corporations are public citizens too.
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> Those in the unions are the public This is a nonsense delineation in systems thinking. That railroad shareholders are also the public doesn't justify ripping them off. Unions are beholden to the same impulses towards monopoly and rent-seeking as corporations. Swap members (i.e. sellers of labour) for shareholders (i.e. sellers of capital) and employers (i.e. buyers of labour) for customers (i.e. buyers of goods and services) and union management starts looking remarkably like its corporate analog, churning undifferentiated workers into a differentiated and thus premium block of labour as truly as a mill grinds forests into houses.
- arethuza 3y ago
  "That railroad shareholders are also the public" They are the public, just not the UK public!
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  > railroad shareholders are also the public Lets see the shareholders: * French government * Chinese government * Australian banks
- 5822130027 3y ago
  [dead]
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  "If you change every detail of both things they're the same thing!" Labor and capital aren't the same concept no matter how much you scramble them. One is powerful enough that the entire system is named after it.

jdasdf 3y ago

They do!

lostlogin 3y ago

You look at these crappy companies and the problem you see is unionised staff? Have you seen the dividends and bonuses at Thames Water, or read the article posted here?

dffdsa432 3y ago
Thames Water's CEO has a $1.5 million pay package which is lower than CEOs of corporations of the same size. The funding for public unions in the UK is $233 billion. Great comparison there.
- arethuza 3y ago
  CEOs of corporations of the same size quite often have to find and retain customers in competitive markets - which is hardly the case with Thames Water?
  - dffdsa432 3y ago
    What is your point? $1.5 million is used to attract a CEO who can manage a large corporation. That is less than many players on second tier English clubs who are riding the pine. That is a rounding error when considering $233 billion paid to unions.
    - rightbyte 3y ago
      CEOs have almost no competitive pressure. They are mostly recruited within the upper class. Paying more won't net you a better one.
      - darkclouds 3y ago
        >CEOs have almost no competitive pressure. Yes they do, from rival businesses, superior and new technology, just look at Chat-GPT potentially putting programmers out of work, or telegrams being made redundant by pagers, and text messages and email. @arethuza >CEOs of corporations of the same size quite often have to find and retain customers in competitive markets - which is hardly the case with Thames Water? Water companies are delivering a minimum standard of water, call it the least toxic form of water considering the energy constraints and logistics of delivering water en-masse compared to other methods of obtaining water. Mains water from a very young age always made me sick, so where possible I use bottled spring water in the kettle, but am currently considering a reverse osmosis water filter, to deionise the water in the house as much as possible. Deionised water is the best tasting, sweetest tasting water I've ever experienced, and if I listened to the medical experts I should be dead on numerous counts of their assertations. So two fingers up to them as well! LOL

lozenge 3y ago

Employees of private companies.. can also join unions! Gasp!

dffdsa432 3y ago
Yes, and? Unions of both sectors try to maximize their profits. Which do not?
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  As we saw with the recent US rail strike threats, unions do not maximize member profit, but rather member satisfaction. They didn't want more money