6 ms·

NDAs are a thing. You don't need invasive copyright laws for any of this.

by floomk 3y ago

kube-system 3y ago
Yes, but NDAs are not automatic and are too cumbersome to protect people in anything but the most formal, pre-planned, and equitable situations. There are many scenarios where people deserve these protections and NDAs wouldn't be possible or practical. For instance: * An artist improvising in public * Someone sharing with another party in a situation with a large power imbalance (and so they refuse to sign an NDA with anyone) * Someone sharing in a social situation where NDAs are not practical (romantic, familial, or personal relationships)
- floomk 3y ago
  > * An artist improvising in public You have no reasonable expectation of privacy in public. > * Someone sharing with another party in a situation with a large power imbalance (and so they refuse to sign an NDA with anyone) Don't share it with them until they sign. If they sign and violate the NDA, you got your payday. > * Someone sharing in a social situation where NDAs are not practical (romantic, familial, or personal relationships) If you don't trust your spouse then get a prenup. The other categories aren't special. That said, if your work is so easy to copy it probably wasn't (or shouldn't have been) valuable to begin with. Implementation matters more than ideas. So most of these concerns are silly to me.
  - xdrosenheim 3y ago
    > You have no reasonable expectation of privacy in public. That does not apply to every country.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    No, an artist absolutely should have a reasonable expectation that their improv at a coffee shop won't be ripped off next week by a billion dollar publisher. > Don't share it with them until they sign. Which would be possible in a situation where someone has the power to do so, but this isn't always the case. In industries where there are large negotiating power imbalances between creators and others they work with, you will typically find that creators have little to no negotiation power. There's a reason we have many legal protections in many parts of the law outside of contract law. > If you don't trust your spouse then get a prenup. The other categories aren't special. A spouse is the most formal of the examples I listed. And a spouse in many places is someone you've already entered into a formal legal agreement with. But to the contrary, I don't think it is reasonable to expect people bring NDAs to a first date. > That said, if your work is so easy to copy it probably wasn't (or shouldn't have been) valuable to begin with. Implementation matters more than ideas. So most of these concerns are silly to me. The concept of privacy isn't predicated on monetary value.
    - floomk 3y ago
      > No, an artist absolutely should have a reasonable expectation that their improv at a coffee shop won't be ripped off next week by a billion dollar publisher. Nah. There's no way for that artist to know if some other artist did the exact same bit a week earlier. If they happened to have done so, tough luck! Doesn't matter that you came up with it independently on your own. > Which would be possible in a situation where someone has the power to do so, but this isn't always the case. In industries where there are large negotiating power imbalances between creators and others they work with, you will typically find that creators have little to no negotiation power. There's a reason we have many legal protections in many parts of the law outside of contract law. So don't share it with them if you don't want to take the risk and you also don't want to enter into an agreement. > A spouse is the most formal of the examples I listed. And a spouse in many places is someone you've already entered into a formal legal agreement with. But to the contrary, I don't think it is reasonable to expect people bring NDAs to a first date. So don't share it with them if you don't want to take the risk and you also don't want to enter into an agreement. > The concept of privacy isn't predicated on monetary value. Indeed, it's predicated on privacy. Don't share what you don't want to share.
      - theoriginaldog 3y ago
        > Nah. There's no way for that artist to know if some other artist did the exact same bit a week earlier. If they happened to have done so, tough luck! Doesn't matter that you came up with it independently on your own. If this should happen, this previous artist would be able to claim copyright on his creation. That is what copyright is about, protecting your creative creations. If you write a song and perform it on the streets for free, no one should be able to just take the song and perform it themselves without your permission.
Zetice 3y ago
...so are terms of use, which often include "you can't share this without my permission" so even if copyright law weren't so awful, the people who would be doing the sharing would still be breaking an agreement to do so.
- kube-system 3y ago
  Most things in life aren't software and don't have a TOS. I know this is a tech forum, and people are usually thinking about tech, but most of what copyright applies to is still not software.
  - Zetice 3y ago
    Most things do have terms of service (not Terms of Service), including copyright law.

NDAs are a thing. You don't need invasive copyright laws for any of this.

by floomk 3y ago

NDAs are a thing. You don't need invasive copyright laws for any of this.

Yes, but NDAs are not automatic and are too cumbersome to protect people in anything but the most formal, pre-planned, and equitable situations. There are many scenarios where people deserve these protections and NDAs wouldn't be possible or practical. For instance: * An artist improvising in public * Someone sharing with another party in a situation with a large power imbalance (and so they refuse to sign an NDA with anyone) * Someone sharing in a social situation where NDAs are not practical (romantic, familial, or personal relationships)

floomk 3y ago
> * An artist improvising in public You have no reasonable expectation of privacy in public. > * Someone sharing with another party in a situation with a large power imbalance (and so they refuse to sign an NDA with anyone) Don't share it with them until they sign. If they sign and violate the NDA, you got your payday. > * Someone sharing in a social situation where NDAs are not practical (romantic, familial, or personal relationships) If you don't trust your spouse then get a prenup. The other categories aren't special. That said, if your work is so easy to copy it probably wasn't (or shouldn't have been) valuable to begin with. Implementation matters more than ideas. So most of these concerns are silly to me.
- xdrosenheim 3y ago
  > You have no reasonable expectation of privacy in public. That does not apply to every country.
- kube-system 3y ago
  No, an artist absolutely should have a reasonable expectation that their improv at a coffee shop won't be ripped off next week by a billion dollar publisher. > Don't share it with them until they sign. Which would be possible in a situation where someone has the power to do so, but this isn't always the case. In industries where there are large negotiating power imbalances between creators and others they work with, you will typically find that creators have little to no negotiation power. There's a reason we have many legal protections in many parts of the law outside of contract law. > If you don't trust your spouse then get a prenup. The other categories aren't special. A spouse is the most formal of the examples I listed. And a spouse in many places is someone you've already entered into a formal legal agreement with. But to the contrary, I don't think it is reasonable to expect people bring NDAs to a first date. > That said, if your work is so easy to copy it probably wasn't (or shouldn't have been) valuable to begin with. Implementation matters more than ideas. So most of these concerns are silly to me. The concept of privacy isn't predicated on monetary value.
  - floomk 3y ago
    > No, an artist absolutely should have a reasonable expectation that their improv at a coffee shop won't be ripped off next week by a billion dollar publisher. Nah. There's no way for that artist to know if some other artist did the exact same bit a week earlier. If they happened to have done so, tough luck! Doesn't matter that you came up with it independently on your own. > Which would be possible in a situation where someone has the power to do so, but this isn't always the case. In industries where there are large negotiating power imbalances between creators and others they work with, you will typically find that creators have little to no negotiation power. There's a reason we have many legal protections in many parts of the law outside of contract law. So don't share it with them if you don't want to take the risk and you also don't want to enter into an agreement. > A spouse is the most formal of the examples I listed. And a spouse in many places is someone you've already entered into a formal legal agreement with. But to the contrary, I don't think it is reasonable to expect people bring NDAs to a first date. So don't share it with them if you don't want to take the risk and you also don't want to enter into an agreement. > The concept of privacy isn't predicated on monetary value. Indeed, it's predicated on privacy. Don't share what you don't want to share.
    - theoriginaldog 3y ago
      > Nah. There's no way for that artist to know if some other artist did the exact same bit a week earlier. If they happened to have done so, tough luck! Doesn't matter that you came up with it independently on your own. If this should happen, this previous artist would be able to claim copyright on his creation. That is what copyright is about, protecting your creative creations. If you write a song and perform it on the streets for free, no one should be able to just take the song and perform it themselves without your permission.

Zetice 3y ago

...so are terms of use, which often include "you can't share this without my permission" so even if copyright law weren't so awful, the people who would be doing the sharing would still be breaking an agreement to do so.

kube-system 3y ago
Most things in life aren't software and don't have a TOS. I know this is a tech forum, and people are usually thinking about tech, but most of what copyright applies to is still not software.
- Zetice 3y ago
  Most things do have terms of service (not Terms of Service), including copyright law.