7 ms·

I always thought this kind of thing was always done by uneducated postal workers and the like. Pretty disheartening to see a fellow engineer act so stupidly. T

by dfarm 18y ago

I always thought this kind of thing was always done by uneducated postal workers and the like. Pretty disheartening to see a fellow engineer act so stupidly. Time to reconsider getting a concealed weapons permit I guess. Condolences to Agarwal and Pugh's (and anon woman's) families.

ricky_clarkson 18y ago
What will you do with the concealed weapon? Shoot his bullet in mid-air?
- mechanical_fish 18y ago
  I think it's the placebo effect. That's why I carry a homeopathic concealed weapon: a small vial of water with some floating specs of rust in it.
  - maximilian 18y ago
    You mean you are carrying a small vial of water that says it has rust in it, but doesn't actually (or at least has a very low probability of having a rust molecule).
    - mechanical_fish 18y ago
      That's more correct, actually, and I used to use one of those. But I decided it didn't have enough firepower. Now I prefer my homeopathic Death Star, in case I get attacked by a whole planet at once.
- ivank 18y ago
  Maybe prevent the deaths of two or more people? Is this really so far-fetched?
- yummyfajitas 18y ago
  It's also completely useless for the police to carry weapons. After all, the best we can possibly hope for is that they might shoot someone's bullet in mid air. Therefore, I propose we stop giving weapons to the police as a cost saving measure.
  - abstractbill 18y ago
    British police don't usually have guns, and I always felt safer for it when I lived there, fwiw.
    - kqr2 18y ago
      Yes, but they have surveillance cameras everywhere. It's a bit Orwellian.
      - abstractbill 18y ago
        Most of those cameras are privately owned, and on private property. I'm ok with that.
        jimbokun 18y ago
        Does the state have the right to demand and view the tapes?
    - yummyfajitas 18y ago
      Maybe you felt safer, but the numbers suggest your feelings were incorrect. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/798708/posts http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/798708/posts Note: I realize the US has high murder rates. Murder rates are not indicative of general safety, since most murders consist of one crook killing another. To put a face on it, think Tony Soprano or Stringer Bell taking out the competition. Most robberies (at least those reported in crime statistics) consist of a criminal robbing a civilian.
    - NonEUCitizen 18y ago
      http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4713753.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4713753.stm
- bprater 18y ago
  If you knew that everyone else had the potential of carrying a concealed weapon, would you be at likely to shoot someone else? In my state, Florida, it's relatively easy to secure the paperwork to carry concealed, and it tends to be a strong deterrant here.
  - abstractbill 18y ago
    If you knew that everyone else had the potential of carrying a concealed weapon ...then I would probably never leave my house.
    - anamax 18y ago
      Then it's good for you that only the bad folk carry....
      - abstractbill 18y ago
        I think people have the capacity to be both good and bad, depending on often quite random stuff that happens to them. I'm just glad to live somewhere that the majority of people, "good" or "bad", don't carry - I'd hate to live somewhere the opposite was true.
        anamax 18y ago
        > I'm just glad to live somewhere that the majority of people, "good" or "bad", don't carry - I'd hate to live somewhere the opposite was true. How do you know that the majority of the bad folk don't carry where you are? I've been places where everyone was carrying. Why should that have bothered me?
- jumper 18y ago
  I think the basic motivation for carrying a concealed weapon in situations like these is what if the guy never plans to stop killing? What if he just carries on hunting people for so long as his ammo lasts? That gives you a possibility of making a difference by putting him down early. Likewise, why bother wearing body armor, they'll just shoot you in the face! Except... sometimes whether by their aim sucking or not having time to aim properly, and etc., it does matter. Chaotic situations like these have many possible challenges to present you, some of which a concealed weapon can help you with. I think a lot of people have hate for guns and hence irrationally choose to ignore all the utility of them, in this case by suggesting a situation where it is ridiculous to stop bullets with more bullets, essentially a strawman argument, ignoring all the situations where you can use bullets to prevent someone from firing more.
- iigs 18y ago
  I would like to nominate firearms, and especially the political landscape around firearms, as an informally off-topic subject for this site. Everyone that has an opinion about this topic has a strong one (even me), and I've never seen a forum of any charter not fall into 1) banal, uninformed bickering or 2) scary monoculture or homogeny of thought, relentlessly punishing dissenters. The value of HN (to me) is that it is well tended, and this looks like an additional loss of focus that isn't welcome in my opinion.
sh1mmer 18y ago
I think this clearly shows education doesn't have too much to do with mental health. People with a lot of education can be just as sad and disheartened as anyone else. Layoffs aren't a happy time for anyone, but for someone who was already in a bad place it looks like it can be a tipping point.
- zandorg 18y ago
  It's to do with brain chemistry, say psychiatrists. It can affect anyone, even well-off civil servants. But losing your job is not a chemical imbalance, it's something real.That's harder to treat (I personally think psychiatric drugs should not be used when the problem is real).
  - time_management 18y ago
    I would bet that these sorts of workplace homicides would decrease by 50-90 percent if our country did one thing right: implemented universal healthcare. I've been through layoffs, and the healthcare mess is the scariest thing about losing a job. Food and living expenses can be brought down, but healthcare premiums are ridiculous and inflexible.
    - zandorg 18y ago
      Thanks for your response. I'll point out that I'm in the UK, but I don't know whether it's better in the UK than the US. The UK system is pretty effective, and you get disability 'welfare' (called benefits here) to tide you over until you're better. So, the hospital is free, the drugs are free, the consultant (who checks up on you perhaps quarterly for 20 minutes) is free, and living expenses free too. Free meaning National Insurance is paid, but you get that paid too.
      - abstractbill 18y ago
        As someone who has lived in both countries for many years at a stretch, I'm very glad that I effectively still have the British safety net because I'm still a citizen and can go back there if I get really sick and lose my job and healthcare here.
shimi 18y ago
10 Years ago I was an uneducated postal worker I can't remember having the urge of shooting my bosses or workmates
- dfarm 18y ago
  Sorry for the generalization shimi. I thought for awhile about how to express that idea and couldn't think of a good way. But you're right, education and/or intelligence are not the predictors. I guess it just seems to me that it SHOULD be. Also, though my statement is essentially indefensible, I did want to point out that I was not saying that all postal workers are uneducated, but rather was referring to the postal workers that had opened fire years ago as being the intersection of the set "uneducated" and the set "postal workers." I apologize.
blackguardx 18y ago
My school, Case Western Reserve University, had a student shooting at the business school a few years back. A business major went on a rampage because he thought some sysadmin had deleted his personal webpage. He went on a shooting spree at the Peter B. Lewis building and shot a few people, killing a fellow student. His target, the sysadmin, was unharmed, though.

by dfarm 18y ago

ricky_clarkson 18y ago

What will you do with the concealed weapon? Shoot his bullet in mid-air?

mechanical_fish 18y ago
I think it's the placebo effect. That's why I carry a homeopathic concealed weapon: a small vial of water with some floating specs of rust in it.
- maximilian 18y ago
  You mean you are carrying a small vial of water that says it has rust in it, but doesn't actually (or at least has a very low probability of having a rust molecule).
  - mechanical_fish 18y ago
    That's more correct, actually, and I used to use one of those. But I decided it didn't have enough firepower. Now I prefer my homeopathic Death Star, in case I get attacked by a whole planet at once.
ivank 18y ago
Maybe prevent the deaths of two or more people? Is this really so far-fetched?
yummyfajitas 18y ago
It's also completely useless for the police to carry weapons. After all, the best we can possibly hope for is that they might shoot someone's bullet in mid air. Therefore, I propose we stop giving weapons to the police as a cost saving measure.
- abstractbill 18y ago
  British police don't usually have guns, and I always felt safer for it when I lived there, fwiw.
  - kqr2 18y ago
    Yes, but they have surveillance cameras everywhere. It's a bit Orwellian.
    - abstractbill 18y ago
      Most of those cameras are privately owned, and on private property. I'm ok with that.
      - jimbokun 18y ago
        Does the state have the right to demand and view the tapes?
  - yummyfajitas 18y ago
    Maybe you felt safer, but the numbers suggest your feelings were incorrect. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/798708/posts http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/798708/posts Note: I realize the US has high murder rates. Murder rates are not indicative of general safety, since most murders consist of one crook killing another. To put a face on it, think Tony Soprano or Stringer Bell taking out the competition. Most robberies (at least those reported in crime statistics) consist of a criminal robbing a civilian.
  - NonEUCitizen 18y ago
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4713753.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4713753.stm
bprater 18y ago
If you knew that everyone else had the potential of carrying a concealed weapon, would you be at likely to shoot someone else? In my state, Florida, it's relatively easy to secure the paperwork to carry concealed, and it tends to be a strong deterrant here.
- abstractbill 18y ago
  If you knew that everyone else had the potential of carrying a concealed weapon ...then I would probably never leave my house.
  - anamax 18y ago
    Then it's good for you that only the bad folk carry....
    - abstractbill 18y ago
      I think people have the capacity to be both good and bad, depending on often quite random stuff that happens to them. I'm just glad to live somewhere that the majority of people, "good" or "bad", don't carry - I'd hate to live somewhere the opposite was true.
      - anamax 18y ago
        > I'm just glad to live somewhere that the majority of people, "good" or "bad", don't carry - I'd hate to live somewhere the opposite was true. How do you know that the majority of the bad folk don't carry where you are? I've been places where everyone was carrying. Why should that have bothered me?
jumper 18y ago
I think the basic motivation for carrying a concealed weapon in situations like these is what if the guy never plans to stop killing? What if he just carries on hunting people for so long as his ammo lasts? That gives you a possibility of making a difference by putting him down early. Likewise, why bother wearing body armor, they'll just shoot you in the face! Except... sometimes whether by their aim sucking or not having time to aim properly, and etc., it does matter. Chaotic situations like these have many possible challenges to present you, some of which a concealed weapon can help you with. I think a lot of people have hate for guns and hence irrationally choose to ignore all the utility of them, in this case by suggesting a situation where it is ridiculous to stop bullets with more bullets, essentially a strawman argument, ignoring all the situations where you can use bullets to prevent someone from firing more.
iigs 18y ago
I would like to nominate firearms, and especially the political landscape around firearms, as an informally off-topic subject for this site. Everyone that has an opinion about this topic has a strong one (even me), and I've never seen a forum of any charter not fall into 1) banal, uninformed bickering or 2) scary monoculture or homogeny of thought, relentlessly punishing dissenters. The value of HN (to me) is that it is well tended, and this looks like an additional loss of focus that isn't welcome in my opinion.

sh1mmer 18y ago

I think this clearly shows education doesn't have too much to do with mental health. People with a lot of education can be just as sad and disheartened as anyone else. Layoffs aren't a happy time for anyone, but for someone who was already in a bad place it looks like it can be a tipping point.

zandorg 18y ago
It's to do with brain chemistry, say psychiatrists. It can affect anyone, even well-off civil servants. But losing your job is not a chemical imbalance, it's something real.That's harder to treat (I personally think psychiatric drugs should not be used when the problem is real).
- time_management 18y ago
  I would bet that these sorts of workplace homicides would decrease by 50-90 percent if our country did one thing right: implemented universal healthcare. I've been through layoffs, and the healthcare mess is the scariest thing about losing a job. Food and living expenses can be brought down, but healthcare premiums are ridiculous and inflexible.
  - zandorg 18y ago
    Thanks for your response. I'll point out that I'm in the UK, but I don't know whether it's better in the UK than the US. The UK system is pretty effective, and you get disability 'welfare' (called benefits here) to tide you over until you're better. So, the hospital is free, the drugs are free, the consultant (who checks up on you perhaps quarterly for 20 minutes) is free, and living expenses free too. Free meaning National Insurance is paid, but you get that paid too.
    - abstractbill 18y ago
      As someone who has lived in both countries for many years at a stretch, I'm very glad that I effectively still have the British safety net because I'm still a citizen and can go back there if I get really sick and lose my job and healthcare here.

shimi 18y ago

10 Years ago I was an uneducated postal worker I can't remember having the urge of shooting my bosses or workmates

dfarm 18y ago
Sorry for the generalization shimi. I thought for awhile about how to express that idea and couldn't think of a good way. But you're right, education and/or intelligence are not the predictors. I guess it just seems to me that it SHOULD be. Also, though my statement is essentially indefensible, I did want to point out that I was not saying that all postal workers are uneducated, but rather was referring to the postal workers that had opened fire years ago as being the intersection of the set "uneducated" and the set "postal workers." I apologize.

blackguardx 18y ago

My school, Case Western Reserve University, had a student shooting at the business school a few years back. A business major went on a rampage because he thought some sysadmin had deleted his personal webpage. He went on a shooting spree at the Peter B. Lewis building and shot a few people, killing a fellow student. His target, the sysadmin, was unharmed, though.