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My favourite story of Diablo's development (as relayed by David Brevik in the Diablo Postmortem - see below) is the part where Diablo was made real-time. He pas

My favourite story of Diablo's development (as relayed by David Brevik in the Diablo Postmortem - see below) is the part where Diablo was made real-time. He passionately championed that it should be more like Rogue or Moria purely turn-based and permadeath. That was until he implemented real-time movement in an afternoon and attacked a skeleton. This was a directive from Blizzard, and it effectively created the ARPG genre. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VscdPA6sUkc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VscdPA6sUkc and for those averse to Google: https://www.gdcvault.com/play/1023469/Classic-Game-Postmortem https://www.gdcvault.com/play/1023469/Classic-Game-Postmorte...

crtified 3y ago
A trivial aside, and for which I apologise in advance - not least because it may have been merely a typo - but the correct phrase is "averse [to Google]", not adverse. "Averse to Google" == "disinclined to Google"; "Adverse to Google" == "has negative effects upon Google". I am assuming you meant the former. https://grammarist.com/usage/adverse-averse/ https://grammarist.com/usage/adverse-averse/ https://www.dictionary.com/e/adverse-vs-averse/ https://www.dictionary.com/e/adverse-vs-averse/
- bexsella 3y ago
  It was an honest typo, but it did make me think that at some point with the heat of the idea of the "Metaverse" in some circles, that Google could roll out a competing "Adverse". Note: typo corrected.
  - warent 3y ago
    Oh god please don't give them any ideas. Delete this ASAP
    - SgtBastard 3y ago
      This thread has already been ingested by OpenAI, so if not GOOG, then MSFT. I am inevitable</thanos>
  - luag 3y ago
    Ad platform for the meta verse
    - haydenchambers 3y ago
      [dead]
    - KnobbleMcKnees 3y ago
      Now that really _is_ meta
aidenn0 3y ago
I have no clue why, but the Diablo style dungeon-crawler ARPGs are literally the only subgenre of game that I have not found a single game from which I like. I keep trying examples because it's such a strange (and popular) hole in my tastes. Games I've tried: - Diablo - Diablo II - Nox - Dungeon Siege - Divinity - A few others I'm probably forgetting.
- tjr225 3y ago
  [dead]
- devman0 3y ago
  Not a player of it myself, but Path of Exile was pretty popular with my Diablo liking friends during the in between years of Diablo releases.
  - wesammikhail 3y ago
    Diablo and PoE differ in tone and gameplay. One is darker and more story/world focused, which is what people tend to love about it, while the other is about management of extreme complexity. Path of Exile (and by extension the upcoming path of exile 2) is all about sinking thousands of hours into understanding game mechanics. The level of depth in that game is unmatched while the story is a complete clusterfuck. For example: you need third party programs to just help you understand how much damage you´re doing due to the number of variables that need to be accounted for https://pathofbuilding.community/images/pob_overview.png https://pathofbuilding.community/images/pob_overview.png Reason I say this is because if the parent comment is looking for something to try, it is important to keep in mind that PoE is really difficult for beginners to get into and play casually.
    - solardev 3y ago
      PoE isn't too hard to play in the beginning, as long as you learn the skill gem system (takes 5 min?) But yeah it gets immensely complicated in the endgame. I've been playing for about a year now and am barely just starting to understand it. That said, it's still a lot of fun. It took me a while to get over the frustration but once I did, it became one of my all time favorite ARPGs... and games, period. It's totally free too. You only pay for cosmetics and optional extra bank (stash) space. A really fair monetization model that doesn't sacrifice the player experience, so on that front I totally support what they're hilding. (They are, however, owned by Tencent now sadly.)
cubefox 3y ago
Nitpick: ARPG games are much older than Diablo[1], though Diablo might be considered pioneering a special type of ARPG. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_role-playing_game#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_role-playing_game#Histo...
- AOsborn 3y ago
  I think it is pretty fair to say that Diablo 1 did effectively create the genre as far as the history of gaming is concerned. The commercial and mainstream impact of that game vs anything prior to that is on a different magnitude. A similar comparison is saying that Apple didn't invent touchscreen phones - sure, but the iPhone had such an overwhelming impact that it shook up the entire industry. Relevant phone comparison image: https://www.cultofmac.com/145083/what-phones-looked-like-before-and-after-the-iphone-transformed-the-industry-image/ https://www.cultofmac.com/145083/what-phones-looked-like-bef...
  - cubefox 3y ago
    > I think it is pretty fair to say that Diablo 1 did effectively create the genre as far as the history of gaming is concerned. Definitely not, there were many successful Japanese ARPGs long before that, like Dragon Slayer, Hydlide, The Legend of Zelda, Final Fantasy Adventure, Secret of Mana etc. Diablo may have created its own subgenre.
    - Kiro 3y ago
      No-one would call Zelda an ARPG. You just need to live with the fact that the term has come to mean something else.
      - cubefox 3y ago
        Zelda II even had experience points, and Wikipedia counts all the other games I named as ARPGs. There is no way in which Diablo was the first ARPG. Edit: Maybe the influence of Diablo is more that it effectively ended the era of Western/PC turn-based RPGs. For Japanese RPGs, turn-based (non-action) RPGs did hang on for longer, e.g. in form of Final Fantasy.
slewis 3y ago
Clicked the youtube link. An hour and 20 minutes later here I am. Thanks for sharing it that was awesome.
sbergot 3y ago
The whole video is great. The turn based vs real time starts after 23 minutes.
malkia 3y ago
While not fully ARPG, it felt like one - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemstone_Warrior https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemstone_Warrior (1984) - one of my fav games from my childhood
e12e 3y ago
Indeed, i remember that anecdote. I experienced the reverse first hand: multiplayer Angband has a clock/ticks and it completely transforms the game - but IMNHO ends up ruining the fun.
fennecfoxy 3y ago
I went to one of his talks at an NZGDC ages ago and it was super great. Not only did he cover that they wrote the whole damn thing in assembly, but also exactly as you say: everyone else there thought that making it real-time instead of turn-based was a great idea, but David wasn't convinced. So he instead spent a weekend (I think it was less than one day even) changing it so that it ran a "turn" per "tick" of time to experiment and I remember him saying something along the lines of "after I finished making the change, that first time I clicked on a skeleton and my character just walked over and smashed his sword into the skeleton I was convinced".
rasz 3y ago
yet Stoneshard is exactly that https://store.steampowered.com/app/625960/Stoneshard/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/625960/Stoneshard/ 23000 positive reviews. Great game.

crtified 3y ago

A trivial aside, and for which I apologise in advance - not least because it may have been merely a typo - but the correct phrase is "averse [to Google]", not adverse. "Averse to Google" == "disinclined to Google"; "Adverse to Google" == "has negative effects upon Google". I am assuming you meant the former. https://grammarist.com/usage/adverse-averse/ https://grammarist.com/usage/adverse-averse/ https://www.dictionary.com/e/adverse-vs-averse/ https://www.dictionary.com/e/adverse-vs-averse/

bexsella 3y ago
It was an honest typo, but it did make me think that at some point with the heat of the idea of the "Metaverse" in some circles, that Google could roll out a competing "Adverse". Note: typo corrected.
- warent 3y ago
  Oh god please don't give them any ideas. Delete this ASAP
  - SgtBastard 3y ago
    This thread has already been ingested by OpenAI, so if not GOOG, then MSFT. I am inevitable</thanos>
- luag 3y ago
  Ad platform for the meta verse
  - haydenchambers 3y ago
    [dead]
  - KnobbleMcKnees 3y ago
    Now that really _is_ meta

aidenn0 3y ago

I have no clue why, but the Diablo style dungeon-crawler ARPGs are literally the only subgenre of game that I have not found a single game from which I like. I keep trying examples because it's such a strange (and popular) hole in my tastes. Games I've tried: - Diablo - Diablo II - Nox - Dungeon Siege - Divinity - A few others I'm probably forgetting.

tjr225 3y ago
[dead]
devman0 3y ago
Not a player of it myself, but Path of Exile was pretty popular with my Diablo liking friends during the in between years of Diablo releases.
- wesammikhail 3y ago
  Diablo and PoE differ in tone and gameplay. One is darker and more story/world focused, which is what people tend to love about it, while the other is about management of extreme complexity. Path of Exile (and by extension the upcoming path of exile 2) is all about sinking thousands of hours into understanding game mechanics. The level of depth in that game is unmatched while the story is a complete clusterfuck. For example: you need third party programs to just help you understand how much damage you´re doing due to the number of variables that need to be accounted for https://pathofbuilding.community/images/pob_overview.png https://pathofbuilding.community/images/pob_overview.png Reason I say this is because if the parent comment is looking for something to try, it is important to keep in mind that PoE is really difficult for beginners to get into and play casually.
  - solardev 3y ago
    PoE isn't too hard to play in the beginning, as long as you learn the skill gem system (takes 5 min?) But yeah it gets immensely complicated in the endgame. I've been playing for about a year now and am barely just starting to understand it. That said, it's still a lot of fun. It took me a while to get over the frustration but once I did, it became one of my all time favorite ARPGs... and games, period. It's totally free too. You only pay for cosmetics and optional extra bank (stash) space. A really fair monetization model that doesn't sacrifice the player experience, so on that front I totally support what they're hilding. (They are, however, owned by Tencent now sadly.)

cubefox 3y ago

Nitpick: ARPG games are much older than Diablo[1], though Diablo might be considered pioneering a special type of ARPG. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_role-playing_game#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_role-playing_game#Histo...

AOsborn 3y ago
I think it is pretty fair to say that Diablo 1 did effectively create the genre as far as the history of gaming is concerned. The commercial and mainstream impact of that game vs anything prior to that is on a different magnitude. A similar comparison is saying that Apple didn't invent touchscreen phones - sure, but the iPhone had such an overwhelming impact that it shook up the entire industry. Relevant phone comparison image: https://www.cultofmac.com/145083/what-phones-looked-like-before-and-after-the-iphone-transformed-the-industry-image/ https://www.cultofmac.com/145083/what-phones-looked-like-bef...
- cubefox 3y ago
  > I think it is pretty fair to say that Diablo 1 did effectively create the genre as far as the history of gaming is concerned. Definitely not, there were many successful Japanese ARPGs long before that, like Dragon Slayer, Hydlide, The Legend of Zelda, Final Fantasy Adventure, Secret of Mana etc. Diablo may have created its own subgenre.
  - Kiro 3y ago
    No-one would call Zelda an ARPG. You just need to live with the fact that the term has come to mean something else.
    - cubefox 3y ago
      Zelda II even had experience points, and Wikipedia counts all the other games I named as ARPGs. There is no way in which Diablo was the first ARPG. Edit: Maybe the influence of Diablo is more that it effectively ended the era of Western/PC turn-based RPGs. For Japanese RPGs, turn-based (non-action) RPGs did hang on for longer, e.g. in form of Final Fantasy.

slewis 3y ago

Clicked the youtube link. An hour and 20 minutes later here I am. Thanks for sharing it that was awesome.

sbergot 3y ago

The whole video is great. The turn based vs real time starts after 23 minutes.

malkia 3y ago

While not fully ARPG, it felt like one - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemstone_Warrior https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemstone_Warrior (1984) - one of my fav games from my childhood

e12e 3y ago

Indeed, i remember that anecdote. I experienced the reverse first hand: multiplayer Angband has a clock/ticks and it completely transforms the game - but IMNHO ends up ruining the fun.

fennecfoxy 3y ago

I went to one of his talks at an NZGDC ages ago and it was super great. Not only did he cover that they wrote the whole damn thing in assembly, but also exactly as you say: everyone else there thought that making it real-time instead of turn-based was a great idea, but David wasn't convinced. So he instead spent a weekend (I think it was less than one day even) changing it so that it ran a "turn" per "tick" of time to experiment and I remember him saying something along the lines of "after I finished making the change, that first time I clicked on a skeleton and my character just walked over and smashed his sword into the skeleton I was convinced".

rasz 3y ago

yet Stoneshard is exactly that https://store.steampowered.com/app/625960/Stoneshard/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/625960/Stoneshard/ 23000 positive reviews. Great game.