7 ms·

I have a third party brush head for my Philips Sonicare with none of the smart features and no electronics in the head (there's an air gap where they usually ar

by Voklen 3y ago

I have a third party brush head for my Philips Sonicare with none of the smart features and no electronics in the head (there's an air gap where they usually are) and it still works fine. This makes me wonder all the more why they put the effort in to secure the head.

mensetmanusman 3y ago
There's a good conspiracy here somewhere.
- mistermann 3y ago
  Something kinda like this: https://youtu.be/jmzJXVEnmKc https://youtu.be/jmzJXVEnmKc
version_five 3y ago
Engineer gonna engineer. Someone probably just had the time and misplaced passion for security, and when they explained at the weekly standup that they'd added lockout after three attempts, everybody just nodded and moved on.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- tzs 3y ago
  This has long been a temptation for engineers. 40 years ago the textbook in the digital electronics class I took at Caltech had a chapter called "The Engineer as Dope Pusher" that talked about it. It gave as an example clothes dryers. The way most home clothes dryers working back then was you put the clothes in, you turn a dial on a timer to the number of minutes you want the dryer to run, and you press start. The mechanical timers were very reliable. There hadn't been any substantial improvement in their design in decades because there really wasn't anything to improve. There had been improvement in the materials used, and in the cost, but fundamentally mechanical timers was a solved problem. If the mechanical timer ever broke the repairperson would have replacements in their van. Even if they didn't have the specific one for your dryer it didn't matter because they all worked pretty much the same. They could just put in another one. Maybe the mounting holes wouldn't be in the right place, but they could easily improvise some way to mount it in your dryer. The book went on to say that somewhere there is an engineer designing a new clothes dryer, and instead of a mechanical timer that engineer is putting in a digital timer. It has a microprocessor, 7 segment LED digit displays for the time, some buttons for interacting with it (such as setting the time and correcting mistakes), and a power supply. And let's not forget that it has software. That digital timer has no advantage to the user over a mechanical timer. But it has disadvantages. The interface will be worse. It will cost more. It won't be more reliable and possibly will be less reliable, and if it does need repair the repairperson probable won't have the parts. If they have another brand's digital timer on hand they probably won't be able to adapt it to your dryer. So why is that engineer designing the new dryer with a digital timer? Because mechanical timers are boring. Digital electronics was at the cutting edge of consumer engineering then, and so by using a digital timer the engineer got to play with exciting new technology.
  - nuancebydefault 3y ago
    What do you mean by "reliable" wrt mechanical timers? I'm pretty sure the clothing dryer is a harsh environment for such a component (moisture and heat can easily cause corrosion and mechanical stress). Also, I guess timing gets less accurate over time. If there are rubbers preventing moisture from entering and oil from leaving, those rubbers will wear out.
    - purpleflame1257 3y ago
      The timer for the dryer is typically located outside of the dryer drum itself. It is not an actuating component.
    - Fatnino 3y ago
      Like another commenter said, the timer is segregated from the harsh dryer environment. But also, some slop in the timing accuracy is just fine. The user doesn't really know how long precisely the drier needs to run to dry their clothes. They just know that if they set this timer to 45 then the clothes come out dry.
    - beezlewax 3y ago
      I have one that is like 40 years old. The heating element is similar to those in an oven. The only things that broke are plastic door hinges.
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    Ah yes, the mythical world where engineers are in charge of deciding which features ship instead of management.
  - conradev 3y ago
    > If the mechanical timer ever broke the repairperson would have replacements in their van > That digital timer has no advantage to the user over a mechanical timer. But it has disadvantages. The mechanical timer is known to degrade over time, which is why the repair person has spares in their van. Does the digital timer really have no advantages? Will it ever fail and need to be replaced? How much more does it cost? Yes, engineers are tempted to use shiny tools all of the time. Evaluating whether or not the tool is right for the job is _hard_. But it feels wrong to say that novelty is the only motivation behind upgrading tools? The digital timer was made by an engineer, too, who designed it to be a more reliable replacement for faulty mechanical timers. It has both advantages and disadvantages compared to mechanical timers, which is why the engineer made it in the first place?
- eschneider 3y ago
  More likely the toothbrush had to pass a security audit. And the last thing you want to have to explain to management is the DEFCON presentation on toothbrush security flaws. No. You. Don't.
- DiscourseFan 3y ago
  When I was a kid I thought it would be cool to be an engineer because I was really interested in creating elegant and efficient designs for things that made them simpler and easier to produce. But I didn't end up becoming an engineer...
lscdlscd 3y ago
Perhaps some compliance to a too-broad security policy. Like, across the board, all NFC enabled electronics with read/write capabilities must have a password mechanism. They probably knew it was dumb but implementing it was easier than getting around all the organizational permissions to make an exception.

by Voklen 3y ago

mensetmanusman 3y ago

There's a good conspiracy here somewhere.

mistermann 3y ago
Something kinda like this: https://youtu.be/jmzJXVEnmKc https://youtu.be/jmzJXVEnmKc

version_five 3y ago

Engineer gonna engineer. Someone probably just had the time and misplaced passion for security, and when they explained at the weekly standup that they'd added lockout after three attempts, everybody just nodded and moved on.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
tzs 3y ago
This has long been a temptation for engineers. 40 years ago the textbook in the digital electronics class I took at Caltech had a chapter called "The Engineer as Dope Pusher" that talked about it. It gave as an example clothes dryers. The way most home clothes dryers working back then was you put the clothes in, you turn a dial on a timer to the number of minutes you want the dryer to run, and you press start. The mechanical timers were very reliable. There hadn't been any substantial improvement in their design in decades because there really wasn't anything to improve. There had been improvement in the materials used, and in the cost, but fundamentally mechanical timers was a solved problem. If the mechanical timer ever broke the repairperson would have replacements in their van. Even if they didn't have the specific one for your dryer it didn't matter because they all worked pretty much the same. They could just put in another one. Maybe the mounting holes wouldn't be in the right place, but they could easily improvise some way to mount it in your dryer. The book went on to say that somewhere there is an engineer designing a new clothes dryer, and instead of a mechanical timer that engineer is putting in a digital timer. It has a microprocessor, 7 segment LED digit displays for the time, some buttons for interacting with it (such as setting the time and correcting mistakes), and a power supply. And let's not forget that it has software. That digital timer has no advantage to the user over a mechanical timer. But it has disadvantages. The interface will be worse. It will cost more. It won't be more reliable and possibly will be less reliable, and if it does need repair the repairperson probable won't have the parts. If they have another brand's digital timer on hand they probably won't be able to adapt it to your dryer. So why is that engineer designing the new dryer with a digital timer? Because mechanical timers are boring. Digital electronics was at the cutting edge of consumer engineering then, and so by using a digital timer the engineer got to play with exciting new technology.
- nuancebydefault 3y ago
  What do you mean by "reliable" wrt mechanical timers? I'm pretty sure the clothing dryer is a harsh environment for such a component (moisture and heat can easily cause corrosion and mechanical stress). Also, I guess timing gets less accurate over time. If there are rubbers preventing moisture from entering and oil from leaving, those rubbers will wear out.
  - purpleflame1257 3y ago
    The timer for the dryer is typically located outside of the dryer drum itself. It is not an actuating component.
  - Fatnino 3y ago
    Like another commenter said, the timer is segregated from the harsh dryer environment. But also, some slop in the timing accuracy is just fine. The user doesn't really know how long precisely the drier needs to run to dry their clothes. They just know that if they set this timer to 45 then the clothes come out dry.
  - beezlewax 3y ago
    I have one that is like 40 years old. The heating element is similar to those in an oven. The only things that broke are plastic door hinges.
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  Ah yes, the mythical world where engineers are in charge of deciding which features ship instead of management.
- conradev 3y ago
  > If the mechanical timer ever broke the repairperson would have replacements in their van > That digital timer has no advantage to the user over a mechanical timer. But it has disadvantages. The mechanical timer is known to degrade over time, which is why the repair person has spares in their van. Does the digital timer really have no advantages? Will it ever fail and need to be replaced? How much more does it cost? Yes, engineers are tempted to use shiny tools all of the time. Evaluating whether or not the tool is right for the job is _hard_. But it feels wrong to say that novelty is the only motivation behind upgrading tools? The digital timer was made by an engineer, too, who designed it to be a more reliable replacement for faulty mechanical timers. It has both advantages and disadvantages compared to mechanical timers, which is why the engineer made it in the first place?
eschneider 3y ago
More likely the toothbrush had to pass a security audit. And the last thing you want to have to explain to management is the DEFCON presentation on toothbrush security flaws. No. You. Don't.
DiscourseFan 3y ago
When I was a kid I thought it would be cool to be an engineer because I was really interested in creating elegant and efficient designs for things that made them simpler and easier to produce. But I didn't end up becoming an engineer...

lscdlscd 3y ago

Perhaps some compliance to a too-broad security policy. Like, across the board, all NFC enabled electronics with read/write capabilities must have a password mechanism. They probably knew it was dumb but implementing it was easier than getting around all the organizational permissions to make an exception.