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People are just not reporting them. My model 3 does something scary at least a few times a month but I've never reported any.

DennisP 3y ago
Number of actual accidents per million miles is the important stat though, and Tesla appears to be doing reasonably well on that front. https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-fsd-beta-safety-crash-statistics/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-fsd-beta-safety-crash-statis...
- Veserv 3y ago
  Sure, and VW also self-reported that their engines passed emissions testing and Ford self-reported that the Pinto was safe. Self-reported numbers by the manufacturer who has a direct financial interest to lie and who maliciously miscategorizes their L4 design intent system as a L2 design intent so that they do not need to do safety testing or submit reports to regulatory agencys is the opposite of believable.
  - detrites 3y ago
    Except this leak confirms them in this case hence the subject of this thread?
otterley 3y ago
Why not?
dotancohen 3y ago
> My model 3 does something scary at least a few times a month but I've never reported any. Why not? The barrier of entry is pressing a button and then describing, in voice, what just happened.
- jen20 3y ago
  The privacy violation of doing so and communicating who the hell knows what metadata to a man-child who will happily disclose it if he feels like it one day?
  - bborud 3y ago
    That's a fair point. Not least because this is why I wouldn't consider buying a Tesla. It feels too much like dealing with software: it isn't your car. It is Teslas car. And maybe paying a bunch of money for it means you can drive it, but sometimes, when you hit some corner case, it doesn't.
    - dotancohen 3y ago
      As a Tesla owner, I would love to know what corner cases you are referring to. I've been a tech at a Ford dealership, and I'd say that the incidents which render the average Ford undrivable are far greater than the incidents which render the average Tesla undrivable.
      - joshspankit 3y ago
        This is a much hairier and more nuanced conversation for a different thread, but second-owner (used) FSD comes to mind as an example of not truly owning the car.
      - bborud 3y ago
        Second hand Teslas represent a challenge as someone pointed out. You also can't necessarily modify or inspect the car without Tesla getting their panties in a twist (I dare you to connect to the network inside your car and try to get access to the onboard computers and then try to have the discussion with Tesla about who's car it really is). The there are the massive privacy issues and the fact that you can't do anything about that: your car is spying on you. (I know consumers don't care enough about this in the US to elect politicians that take privacy seriously, but in Europe we do. Which is why Tesla is under scrutiny for not only collecting massive amounts of invasive data, but also for not being able to adequately safeguard the data they collect).
joshspankit 3y ago
I was going to say "Because you believe in the Tesla mission. That's why someone buys the car." but I realize that that's actually no longer the case. That they've become a car manufacturer where customers can simply weigh the pros/cons as they decide what car to buy.
w8vY7ER 3y ago
my six year old model 3 with 60,000 miles on it doesn’t do anything I don’t tell it to- this sounds like user error. I wouldn’t report user error either.
99_00 3y ago
There's no reason to assume that of owners of other car brands are reporting 100% of issues, so relative comparison is still valid.

DennisP 3y ago

Number of actual accidents per million miles is the important stat though, and Tesla appears to be doing reasonably well on that front. https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-fsd-beta-safety-crash-statistics/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-fsd-beta-safety-crash-statis...

Veserv 3y ago
Sure, and VW also self-reported that their engines passed emissions testing and Ford self-reported that the Pinto was safe. Self-reported numbers by the manufacturer who has a direct financial interest to lie and who maliciously miscategorizes their L4 design intent system as a L2 design intent so that they do not need to do safety testing or submit reports to regulatory agencys is the opposite of believable.
- detrites 3y ago
  Except this leak confirms them in this case hence the subject of this thread?

otterley 3y ago

Why not?

dotancohen 3y ago

> My model 3 does something scary at least a few times a month but I've never reported any. Why not? The barrier of entry is pressing a button and then describing, in voice, what just happened.

jen20 3y ago
The privacy violation of doing so and communicating who the hell knows what metadata to a man-child who will happily disclose it if he feels like it one day?
- bborud 3y ago
  That's a fair point. Not least because this is why I wouldn't consider buying a Tesla. It feels too much like dealing with software: it isn't your car. It is Teslas car. And maybe paying a bunch of money for it means you can drive it, but sometimes, when you hit some corner case, it doesn't.
  - dotancohen 3y ago
    As a Tesla owner, I would love to know what corner cases you are referring to. I've been a tech at a Ford dealership, and I'd say that the incidents which render the average Ford undrivable are far greater than the incidents which render the average Tesla undrivable.
    - joshspankit 3y ago
      This is a much hairier and more nuanced conversation for a different thread, but second-owner (used) FSD comes to mind as an example of not truly owning the car.
    - bborud 3y ago
      Second hand Teslas represent a challenge as someone pointed out. You also can't necessarily modify or inspect the car without Tesla getting their panties in a twist (I dare you to connect to the network inside your car and try to get access to the onboard computers and then try to have the discussion with Tesla about who's car it really is). The there are the massive privacy issues and the fact that you can't do anything about that: your car is spying on you. (I know consumers don't care enough about this in the US to elect politicians that take privacy seriously, but in Europe we do. Which is why Tesla is under scrutiny for not only collecting massive amounts of invasive data, but also for not being able to adequately safeguard the data they collect).

joshspankit 3y ago

I was going to say "Because you believe in the Tesla mission. That's why someone buys the car." but I realize that that's actually no longer the case. That they've become a car manufacturer where customers can simply weigh the pros/cons as they decide what car to buy.

w8vY7ER 3y ago

my six year old model 3 with 60,000 miles on it doesn’t do anything I don’t tell it to- this sounds like user error. I wouldn’t report user error either.

99_00 3y ago

There's no reason to assume that of owners of other car brands are reporting 100% of issues, so relative comparison is still valid.